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Religion
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Title: The biggest threat now is not Radical Islam. It is Apocalyptic Islam.
Source: Flash Traffic Blog
URL Source: https://flashtrafficblog.wordpress. ... gious-broadcasters-convention/
Published: Feb 27, 2015
Author: Joel Rosenberg
Post Date: 2015-02-27 13:50:34 by redleghunter
Ping List: *Islamic caliphate expansion*     Subscribe to *Islamic caliphate expansion*
Keywords: None
Views: 12945
Comments: 63

(Nashville, Tennessee) — Yesterday, the Christian Post published the following article: “ISIS, Iran Are Agents of ‘Apocalyptic Islam’ Paving Way for ‘Islamic Messiah,’ Says NYT Bestselling Author.” I hope you will take a few moments to read it and consider the analysis.

Last night, I discussed this subject in more detail at the closing dinner of the National Religious Broadcasters convention. Here are excerpts from those remarks. I also promised to post stunning research data on the End Times beliefs of Muslims from a 2012 Pew Research Center study. You will find those numbers below.

—————

THE THREAT OF “APOCALYPTIC ISLAM”

The threat we face is not simply from Radical Islam. Indeed, it not even primarily from Radical Islamic groups like Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, and al Qaeda at this hour, as serious as these threats are.

The most serious threat we face in the Middle East and North Africa is what I call “Apocalyptic Islam.”

This term — “Apocalyptic Islam” — is one that each of needs to become familiar with and begin to teach others. Why? Because for the first time in all of human history, we have not just one but two nation states whose rulers are driven not by political ideology — or even mere religious theology — but by apocalyptic, genocidal End Times eschatology.

The Islamic Republic of Iran today is ruled by an apocalyptic, genocidal death cult. (see also here, here and here)

So is the Islamic State, also known as ISIS or ISIL. (see here and here)

The former are Shia. The latter are Sunni. Both believe the End of days has come. Both believe their messiah – known as the “Mahdi” — is coming at any moment. Both are trying to hasten the coming of the Mahdi. Yet each has entirely different strategies to hasten his arrival or appearance on earth.

ISIS wants to build a caliphate. Iran wants to build The Bomb. ISIS is committing genocide now. Iran is preparing to commit genocide later.

In the near term, ISIS is more dangerous. Why? Because ISIS is on a jihadist rampage right now. Robbing. Killing. Destroying. Enslaving. Raping. Torturing. Beheading. Because ISIS is a Satanic movement. This is not mere terrorism. This is genocide. These are demon-possessed people making blood sacrifices to their god and if they are not stopped they will murder millions and bring down one Mid-eastern regime after another.

As Americans, we dare not turn a blind eye to this threat. If we don’t defeat the jihadists over there, they are coming here. We must act, and act now.

Longer term, Iran is the most dangerous, especially if the President approves this disastrous nuclear deal that is emerging. Why? Because the apocalyptic leaders of Iran are biding their time to build a nuclear arsenal capable of killing tens of millions of people in a matter of minutes.

Far too few people in the West truly understand the nature and threat of Radical Islam. Fewer still are aware of — much less understand — the nature and threat of Apocalyptic Islam. Indeed, many dismiss these concerns all together. But the fact is that a deep and widespread belief exists within the Islamic world that we are living in the End of Days, and that the Islamic “Mahdi” or “messiah” is coming at any moment to bring Judgment Day and the end of all things.

According to a 2012 report by the Pew Research Center, “in most countries in the Middle East and North Africa, South Asia and Southeast Asia, more than half or more of Muslims believe they will live to see the return of the Mahdi.”

Consider that sentence again — “more than half.” In a world of 1.5 billion Muslims, that means more than 750 million Muslims believe not only that the Mahdi is coming, but that his arrival is imminent. •In Egypt, 40% of Muslims believe the return of the Mahdi is imminent. •In Jordan, 41% •Among Palestinians, the number is 46% •In Iraq, a stunning 72% of Muslims believe this

What’s more, an enormous number of Muslims believe that Jesus is coming back to earth. In their eschatology, however, Jesus is not the Savior. He’s not the Son of God. He does not come to reign as King. Rather, Islamic End Times theology posits Jesus as the deputy, serving under the Mahdi, and forcing all people to convert to Islam or die. •In Jordan, 29% of Muslims believe Jesus is coming back to earth •In Egypt, it’s 39% •Among Palestinians, the number is 46% •In Iraq, an eye-popping 64% of Muslims believe Jesus is coming back.

These facts have real-world implications. Our President and many policy-makers are ignoring both the facts and their implications. But we must be clear: we face a threat from Radical Islam which seeks to attack us. We face an even greater threat from Apocalyptic Islam which seeks to annihilate us. Subscribe to *Islamic caliphate expansion*

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#14. To: VxH (#13)

RINOcrats.

There's no trace of a republic in The Party.

Things have evolved (devolved?) to the point where Barry Goldwater would be called a RINO today in the party of the Bush Crime Family and Lady Lindsey.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-27   21:37:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: redleghunter (#0)

The most serious threat we face in the Middle East and North Africa is what I call “Apocalyptic Islam.”

This term — “Apocalyptic Islam” — is one that each of needs to become familiar with and begin to teach others. Why? Because for the first time in all of human history, we have not just one but two nation states whose rulers are driven not by political ideology — or even mere religious theology — but by apocalyptic, genocidal End Times eschatology.

This is the first time many of us are hearing of this insane micro-cult of the satanic Death Cult of Islam. Apparently news is that it's not so "micro."

And there are Emperor 0dinga and his cabal of Muzzie Cultist enablers stoking the fire of insanity run amok.

This is the first time in American history that this government has fallen on its knees to a false god -- Allah, aka Satan.

The future is bleak for such a nation who turned its back on Him and His blessings. God will not be mocked.

Liberator  posted on  2015-02-28   0:02:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: TooConservative (#10)

More people should be aware of the differences between Shi'a and Sunni, the sizes of their factions and distribution and the influence of the Muslim apocalyptic.

Does it really matter? And how?

They're all too busy waiting for the next Left Behind movie (now with Nicolas Cage!).

I hope the CGI are better than the first. (and does Israel lose this time? THAT would make many anti-joos, Muzzies, and the Kumbaya Tree-Hugger fans happy.)

Liberator  posted on  2015-02-28   0:05:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Liberator (#15)

Quick question about you your personal life: do you have any detail about your personk detail?

Pridie.Nones  posted on  2015-02-28   0:11:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Pridie.Nones (#17)

Wait...while I run your question through Babelfish...

Liberator  posted on  2015-02-28   0:19:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Liberator (#18)

I worry about you, Liberator. Your comments could make a difference and yet I see you hunker down. Can you introduce yourself as a self respecting poster?

Pridie.Nones  posted on  2015-02-28   0:28:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Liberator, liberator, GarySpFc, TooConservative, Don, SOSO, out damned spot, cranky, BobCeleste (#2)

We face an even greater threat from Apocalyptic Islam which seeks to annihilate us.

Other than countries that border Islam, Islam is not existential threat to the western world because they have no industrial base or economy that could sustain war.

At best the Muslims will be a long term annoyance and hinderance like the Barbary Pirates were for a couple of centuries till the Europeans colonized Africa.

Worst case scenario is the militias is the set off a nuclear bomb but that would be a one off kind of attack - terrorist Muslims don't have the means to make multiple nukes. Pakistan and maybe Iran can make nukes but they are not world conquerors and are rational state actors and have local enemies which makes them focused away from the west.

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-28   3:03:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Liberator (#16)

Does it really matter? And how?

Oh dear. How to explain...

Yes, it really does matter. Worldwide, the Sunnis are ~90% and the Shi'a are ~10%. Iran and Iraq are majority Shi'a, the longtime heartland of Shi'a Muslims. Syria's crazy diversity is a good sample of the mixes you get:

Sunni Arabs account for 59–60% of the population, most Kurds (9%) and Turkomen (3%) are Sunni, while 13% are Shia (Alawite, Twelvers, and Ismailis combined), 10% Christian (the majority Antiochian Orthodox, the rest including Greek Catholic, Assyrian Church of the East, Armenian Orthodox, Protestants and other denominations), and 3% Druze. Druze number around 500,000, and concentrate mainly in the southern area of Jabal al-Druze.
Saddam, for instance, was a Sunni in a 60% Shi'a majority Iraq.

Yemen, on the southern edge of the Arabian peninsula (and the Saudis), just fell to Shi'a rebels.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-28   4:38:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: sneakypete (#14)

Things have evolved (devolved?) to the point where Barry Goldwater would be called a RINO today in the party of the Bush Crime Family and Lady Lindsey.

Goldwater got the same treatment back then, they just didn't have the internet and therefore the term RINO back then.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-28   4:57:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Liberator, *Crime and Corruption*, *The Two Parties ARE the Same*, *World history*, *Politics and Politicians*, *Arab Spring Jihad* (#15)

And there are Emperor 0dinga and his cabal of Muzzie Cultist enablers stoking the fire of insanity run amok.

Of course they are. Not because of some grand scheme they have devised because they are nothing but mindless tools following the orders of their billionaire masters.

It's the globalists who are behind this,and they are behind it because chaos benefits their goals of a worldwide corporate government/the stealth establishment of new kingdoms.

Chaos has ALWAYS historically lead to harsh government crackdowns on dissidents and troublemakers because this is essential to restoring order.

The difference this time is it will be the very same people restoring order that created the chaos.

Just like chaos in Germany and Russia following WW-1 led to Communist and the more evolved Fascist dictatorial regimes in those countries,worldwide chaos will eventually lead to people all over the planet screaming for government to "Do something,do ANYTHING,BUT STOP THE KILLINGS AND RESTORE ORDER!"

This time the chaos won't be regional,it will be global.

What else CAN that lead to if not a global police state?

The day after Worldwide Government Inc is established and the board members seated,terrorist organizations will stop receiving funding,and their leadership will be rounded up and executed. People all over the world will breathe a sigh of relief and wonder why they didn't demand this earlier,and most will never once wonder how it was possible for these billionaires to shut down the terrorist so quickly when no elected government in the world was able to even slow them down.

Saudi Arabia will become the Kingdom of Arabia,and Israel will become the Switzerland (banking center)of the Muddle East. A protected enclave because they will be the ones handing the financing of all the minor kings,princes,and other royalty.

They will be able to shut them down because THEY are the ones funding and encouraging the terrorism.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-28   7:34:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Liberator, *Crime and Corruption*, *The Two Parties ARE the Same* (#15)

And there are Emperor 0dinga and his cabal of Muzzie Cultist enablers stoking the fire of insanity run amok.

Of course they are. Not because of some grand scheme they have devised because they are nothing but mindless tools following the orders of their billionaire masters.

It's the globalists who are behind this,and they are behind it because chaos benefits their goals of a worldwide corporate government.

Just like chaos in Germany and Russia following WW-1 led to Communist and the more evolved Fascist dictatorial regimes in those countries,worldwide chaos will eventually lead to people all over the planet screaming for government to "Do something,do ANYTHING,BUT STOP THE KILLINGS AND RESTORE ORDER!"

This time the chaos won't be regional,it will be global.

What else CAN that lead to if not a global police state?

The day after Worldwide Government Inc is established and the board members seated,terrorist organizations will stop receiving funding,and their leadership will be rounded up and executed. People all over the world will breathe a sigh of relief and wonder why they didn't demand this earlier,and most will never once wonder how it was possible for these billionaires to shut down the terrorist so quickly when no elected government in the world was able to even slow them down.

They will be able to shut them down because THEY are the ones funding and encouraging the terrorism.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-28   7:35:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: All (#24)

Sorry for the double post. I got distracted.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-28   7:39:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: sneakypete (#25)

You can usually hit Edit and empty one of them of any content, leaving just the comment header/footer. You had time to do it but I think that's expired by now.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-28   8:08:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: sneakypete (#25)

Sorry for the double post. I got distracted.

So what's her name?

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

CZ82  posted on  2015-02-28   8:17:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: TooConservative, sneakypete (#26)

You had time to do it but I think that's expired by now.

It's 40 minutes.

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

CZ82  posted on  2015-02-28   8:18:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: redleghunter, Too Conservative, Vicomte13, Gatlin (#0)

Go to the 18:00 mark and tell me what you think about Rubio's opinion about Obozo and ISIS.

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

CZ82  posted on  2015-02-28   8:54:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: sneakypete (#25)

Sorry pete I initially forgot to PING you to #29.

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

CZ82  posted on  2015-02-28   8:57:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: sneakypete (#23)

cue theme from X-files...

Show chain smoking guy in background...

Obama has played at being a president while enjoying the perks … golf, insanely expensive vacations at tax-payer expense. He has ignored the responsibilities of the job; no plans, no budgets, no alternatives … just finger pointing; making him a complete failure as a president

no gnu taxes  posted on  2015-02-28   8:59:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: CZ82, Pericles, redleghunter (#29)

"They're not Presbyterian." Kinda annoyed Vannity. As it should since he was trying to give Rubio a chance to shine on foreign policy.

Then Rubio delusionally says that Obama won't fight ISIS because it might sour the deal with Iran. This boob seems unaware that Shi'a Iran would like nothing better than to knock off Sunni ISIS and protect its Alawite (Shi'a) partner, Assad. This would also please Shi'a Iraq.

This twit is past his sell-by date.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-28   9:40:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: CZ82 (#30) (Edited)

He mostly sounds good,but the problem is by now we have all heard wannabe presidents sounding good and meaning none of it. Or meaning it and then being slowly strangled by the RNC and GOP leadership to force them to fall into neo-con line to get any support.

I now have a hard time getting excited about any of them.

And I am NOT thrilled by someone who calls them-self a "conservative American",and then thinks he gets to determine what rights American citizens can have and what rights they can't have,depending on who they love or how they entertain themselves and relax.

If you think the role of government is to be your daddy or babysitter,you ain't a conservative.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-28   12:32:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: no gnu taxes (#31)

cue theme from X-files...

Show chain smoking guy in background...

Does that make anything I wrote any less true?

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-28   12:35:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: sneakypete (#33)

I now have a hard time getting excited about any of them.

Me too. I'm already sick of the whole bunch. Including Rand.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-28   12:36:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: TooConservative (#35)

I'm already sick of the whole bunch. Including Rand.

HEY! Give him some credit! It must have taken him all of 2 micro-seconds to sell out!

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-28   12:45:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: sneakypete (#36)

Rand doesn't seem to have a second act. Or even to be presenting a convincing first act.

He's bogged down with his policy initiatives, can't seem to move forward much. And the Senate is still no place to really shine as a legislator since the Dims obstruct about as much in the minority as in the majority.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-28   12:48:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: sneakypete (#34)

Does that make anything I wrote any less true?

Do you have any actual proof it's true?

Of course, the fact that there is no proof is actual proof it must be true...

(cue spooky music)

(show grainy shadowy figures in the background)

Obama has played at being a president while enjoying the perks … golf, insanely expensive vacations at tax-payer expense. He has ignored the responsibilities of the job; no plans, no budgets, no alternatives … just finger pointing; making him a complete failure as a president

no gnu taxes  posted on  2015-02-28   18:26:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: no gnu taxes (#38)

Does that make anything I wrote any less true?

Do you have any actual proof it's true?

You mean other than common sense,reason,history,and the ability to add 2+2 and come up with 4?

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-28   18:54:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Pericles, liberator, GarySpFc, TooConservative, Don, SOSO, out damned spot, cranky, BobCeleste (#20)

Other than countries that border Islam, Islam is not existential threat to the western world because they have no industrial base or economy that could sustain war.

At best the Muslims will be a long term annoyance and hinderance like the Barbary Pirates were for a couple of centuries till the Europeans colonized Africa.

The French disagree with you. So do the Danes, Brits and Americans in NYC, PA and VA. Not to mention all Jews living outside Israel are targets.

"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-01   2:19:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: CZ82 (#29)

Think he has both points right.

First is Iran does see themselves as a regional super power.

Second point is important. Sunni Muslim nations as boots on the ground with US support. Don't create a Sunni vacuum for Iran to swoop in.

"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-01   2:28:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: TooConservative (#32)

I think the link to a US build up of ground troops posited in or around Iraq is something Obola is avoiding because of the Iran talks.

There's a reason why Iran has not sent divisions in to Iraq to help Baghdad defeat ISIL out west and north.

"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-01   2:38:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: redleghunter (#42) (Edited)

I think the link to a US build up of ground troops posited in or around Iraq is something Obola is avoiding because of the Iran talks.

Maybe. Or he is just doing this as a way to try to build some legacy as a statesman, however laughable it is. And he avoids the possibility of Iran testing a nuclear weapon while he is still in office.

Obama does not care if Iran tests a nuke the day after he moves out of the White Hut to make hundreds of millions on the paid speech circuit.

There's a reason why Iran has not sent divisions in to Iraq to help Baghdad defeat ISIL out west and north.

They saw our troubles in cleaning out the Iraqi Sunni (Ba'athist revanchists and apocalyptic nutjobs). Why would they take that job on, especially given their own miserable performance in the Iran-Iraq war?

Staying out of Iraq is a no-brainer for Iran's mullahs. Let the stupid Americans do it and play it for every angle, like the survival of their partner, Assad. Which is exactly what is happening.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-01   7:06:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: sneakypete (#39)

Obama has played at being a president while enjoying the perks … golf, insanely expensive vacations at tax-payer expense. He has ignored the responsibilities of the job; no plans, no budgets, no alternatives … just finger pointing; making him a complete failure as a president

no gnu taxes  posted on  2015-03-01   7:40:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: redleghunter (#42)

There's a reason why Iran has not sent divisions in to Iraq to help Baghdad defeat ISIL out west and north.

Or are they afraid of getting sucked into the whole mess or an American trap?

New thread: Why Iran Believes ISIS is a U.S. Creation

I found the article via a short post at LRC.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-01   8:13:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: no gnu taxes, sneakypete (#44) (Edited)

Hec Ramsey

I want them to bring back the Saturday Night Movie Of The Week. Also the Sunday Night Movie Of The Week, the Monday Night Movie Of The Week, the Tuesday Night Movie Of The Week, the Wednesday Night Movie Of The Week, the Thursday Night Movie Of The Week, and even the Friday Night Movie Of The Week.

As with dial telephones, if you're old enough to remember all those as primetime network fare, you aren't young any more. LOL.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-01   11:57:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: TooConservative (#43)

They saw our troubles in cleaning out the Iraqi Sunni (Ba'athist revanchists and apocalyptic nutjobs). Why would they take that job on, especially given their own miserable performance in the Iran-Iraq war?

Staying out of Iraq is a no-brainer for Iran's mullahs. Let the stupid Americans do it and play it for every angle, like the survival of their partner, Assad. Which is exactly what is happening.

The above are considerations. However the Persians know Iraq's history better than Iraqis.

Tehran knows they have mind control over the Baghdad central government. So they don't have to send divisions. This is where the relation of Shia with Shia ends. Once Persian divisions come across into Arab Iraq, the Iraqis start thinking like Arabs and not Shia Muslims. The ethnic divide is as strong as the Sunni and Shia divide. Something we later learned too late.

"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-01   13:00:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: TooConservative (#46)

I just thought the creepy, spooky intro goes well with tinfoil conspiracy theories.

Obama has played at being a president while enjoying the perks … golf, insanely expensive vacations at tax-payer expense. He has ignored the responsibilities of the job; no plans, no budgets, no alternatives … just finger pointing; making him a complete failure as a president

no gnu taxes  posted on  2015-03-01   14:27:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: no gnu taxes (#48)

Well, the music is the movie, isn't it? That's what all the cinema types insist. It's hard not to grant their point.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-01   15:07:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: redleghunter (#0)

The biggest threat now is not Radical Islam. It is “Apocalyptic Islam.”

So now we are required to sort out the difference between Apocalyptics, radicals, and normal islamics in our attempts to defend ourselves from an organized and self-perpetiating aggressive group psychosis that has conquered everything possible in its path for fourteen hundred years.

I think I got it.

rlk  posted on  2015-03-01   15:16:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: redleghunter (#47)

Tehran knows they have mind control over the Baghdad central government. So they don't have to send divisions. This is where the relation of Shia with Shia ends. Once Persian divisions come across into Arab Iraq, the Iraqis start thinking like Arabs and not Shia Muslims. The ethnic divide is as strong as the Sunni and Shia divide. Something we later learned too late.

Mmm...yeah, I generally think that the Persian/Arab divide is as great and as obvious as the Turkish/Arab divide.

Certainly, Iraq and Iran will not be forming a Shi'a superstate or even a common military. They might have generals who fought each other brutally back in the Eighties, not easily forgotten for either side. So I do not expect Iran to inter-operate directly with Iraq's military.

I do recall that Iran put their forces on high alert and insisted they would attack if ISIS drew significant forces within 40km (or so) of the Iraq/Iran border. That was a few months back. And they probably didn't announce that so openly without Baghdad's assent (it was also to Baghdad's advantage for Iran to take this posture).

Another much-neglected topic is how Iran and Iraq both are determined to prevent any unity of the mountain Kurds of Iran with the northern Kurds of Iraq or any Kurdish faction from Turkey or Syria. Turkey and Syria also oppose this. So that is a sort of longstanding ethnic subtext among these states.

And we forget too quickly that Iran is nowhere close to being ethnically pure like, say, Japan is. Only about 60% of Iran is ethnically Persian. And there are some religious minorities still there, even about 20,000 Orthodox Jews (who aren't always that fond of Israel, just like other Iranians).

Wiki: "The CIA World Factbook has estimated that Persians constitute 61% of the population, Azerbaijanis at 16%, Kurds 10%, Lurs 6%, Arabs 2%, Balochs 2%, Turkmens and Turkic tribes 2%, and others 1% (such as Armenians, Georgians, Circassians, and Assyrians). It found Persian to be first language of 53% of the population, Azeri and other Turkic dialect being spoken by 18%, Kurdish by 10%, Gilaki and Mazandarani by 7%, Luri by 6%, Balochi by 2%, Arabic by 2%, and other languages at 2%."

And while Iran is over 99% Muslim, they are still more tolerant of other religions than our precious allies, the Turks:

Wiki:

Iranian people by religion, 2011 General Census Results[228]
ReligionPercent of
population
Number of
people
Muslim99.3989%74,682,938
Not declared0.3538%205,317
Christian0.1566%117,704
Zoroastrian0.0336%25,271
Jew0.0117%8,756
Other0.0653%49,101
I have to wonder if we'll see in coming years the last Christians eliminated from Iraq much as the ancient Jewish community is now a bare handful of the elderly.

The same may be true of the ancient Syrian churches. I keep wondering when people will start to hold our leaders and pundits who babbled about being "greeted as liberators" and the wonders of the Arab Spring to the public as some great foreign policy initiative.

Personally, our leaders and pundits suck and should be held to account for the wreckage left in the wake of their foolishness across the Mideast. There's plenty of blame for the last two presidents, no need to get partisan.

And we face a far more hostile and dangerous Mideast than we ever did before as a result of this foolish meddling and inability to magically wave a wand and turn Baghdad into Akron, Ohio. Because that just isn't going to happen and it is the job of our leaders to avoid such wishful thinking, not make impossible promises they could never hope to fulfill.

Democracy in Iraq. An Islamic republic. And it's just peachy how all those good intentions and those wartime slogans from our pols worked out, eh?

By the time this nonsensical Arab Spring spread to Cairo and the war crimes that Obama and Hitlery committed against Libya, you really have to consider whether they should be deported to face justice at the Hague.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-01   15:29:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: rlk (#50)

So now we are required to sort out the difference between Apocalyptics, radicals, and normal islamics in our attempts to defend ourselves from an organized and self-perpetiating aggressive group psychosis that has conquered everything possible in its path for fourteen hundred years.

Well, it is a pain in the ass but getting some notion of religious sects and ethnicity in the Mideast is the only alternative to the old Crusader practice of killing them all and letting God sort them out. Surely you don't want to return to that.

And if you're going to meddle in a region with such ethnic and sectarian conflicts and which operates under borders drawn solely for the convenience of the administration and garrisoning of the area as territories of the British empire following the collapse of the Ottoman empire, then, yes, you have to deal with the complexity unless you just plan to go in shooting, no matter what.

Maybe we should try to offer these people something that actually appeals to them in some way. Trade and other relations maybe. Peace and prosperity and human dignity usually doesn't offend anyone in the way that invasions and foreign religions and politics and ethnicity does.

We are not natural occupants of the Mideast. They do not welcome us at all in any way comparable to the reception we get in Europe or in Asia. And we will never be very welcome in the Mideast. That's just how it is. We have to live with that. I wish people remembered Ronald Reagan's wisdom in recognizing the essential futility of getting mired in Mideast politics.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-01   15:37:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: redleghunter, , liberator, GarySpFc, TooConservative, Don, SOSO, out damned spot, cranky, BobCeleste (#40)

The French disagree with you. So do the Danes, Brits and Americans in NYC, PA and VA. Not to mention all Jews living outside Israel are targets.

Israel and France (in a manner) border Islamic nations, Nimrod.

My point stands.

Pericles  posted on  2015-03-01   15:42:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: Pericles, liberator, GarySpFc, TooConservative, Don, out damned spot, cranky, BobCeleste (#20)

Other than countries that border Islam, Islam is not existential threat to the western world because they have no industrial base or economy that could sustain war.

How much of an industrial base do they need to destroy the U.S. and Western economies. A few well placed nukes would readily do the job. No war needs to be sustained, the first volley would do the job.

I suppose you also dismiss N. Korea as an existential threat as well?

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-01   16:26:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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