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New Discovery! 2023 Hottest in over 120 Million Years 2024 and beyond in prophecy Questions Status: Not Logged In; Sign In United States News See other United States News Articles Title: Congress launches Medal of Honor campaign for ‘American Sniper’ Chris Kyle Source: washingtontimes.com URL Source: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news ... medal-honor-chris-kyle-americ/ Published: Feb 26, 2015 Author: Jacqueline Klimas Post Date: 2015-02-27 10:03:05 by Gatlin Keywords: None Views: 18002 Comments: 87 A Texas congressman introduced a bill Thursday that would ask the president to posthumously award the Medal of Honor to Chris Kyle, a Navy SEAL whose life was chronicled in the movie “American Sniper.” Rep. Roger Williams, Texas Republican, said Kyle should receive the Medal of Honor for his actions during Operation Iraqi Freedom that saved “countless American lives.” “There is no doubt that this true American hero is worthy of our nation’s highest military honor,” Mr. Williams said in a statement. “While the Medal of Honor will not bring back a husband, father, son and a model Texan, we owe Chris Kyle and his family a great deal of gratitude for his relentless devotion to his country.” Kyle is credited with being the deadliest sniper in American history. He was killed two years ago when a veteran he brought to a gun range who was suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder turned the gun on Kyle. The veteran, Eddie Ray Routh, was found guilty earlier this week and sentenced to life in prison. The Medal of Honor must be awarded by the president, but there is historical precedent for members of Congress offering legislation to encourage the president to award the medal to certain individuals, Mr. Williams‘ office said in a statement. Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 62. #1. To: Gatlin (#0) I'd be more moved by a request from the Joint Chiefs or the appropriate board at the Pentagon. I think that the medals get very questionable when they are awarded as the result of some sleazy pols lobbying for it. The Pentagon should award its own medals. I'd prefer the president not control the award of any medals, military or civilian. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-27   10:19:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #2. To: TooConservative (#1) I think what he did was courageous and I admire him. These are the actions I more closely associate with being awarded a Medal of Honor. Gatlin  posted on  2015-02-27   11:02:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #5. To: Gatlin (#2) These are the actions I more closely associate with being awarded a Medal of Honor. I reviewed them. Chris Kyle's exploits don't match those of the ten listed. This Texas pol wouldn't be lobbying for this if Kyle didn't have a book/movie deal. The pol is piggybacking on to Kyle to aggrandize himself to the voters. Not that that will hurt him any with Texas voters but the rest of us shouldn't fail to see it for what it is. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-28   5:06:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #6. To: TooConservative (#5) (Edited)      These are the actions I more closely associate with being awarded a Medal of Honor. I reviewed them. Chris Kyle's exploits don't match those of the ten listed. The pol is piggybacking on to Kyle to aggrandize himself to the voters. This came to mind immediately when I read the article. Gatlin  posted on  2015-02-28   6:57:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #7. To: Gatlin (#6) (Edited) I saw that half of AZ had their cell/phone/internet knocked out when some vandals dug up and cut a heavy shielded fiber optic cable in the desert. CenturyLink fixed it in a matter of hours. Maybe a test run like the attack on that CA power transformer station and regional telephone systems? FreeBeacon: Vandalism in Arizona Shut Down Internet, Cellphone, Telephone Service Across State Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-28   7:24:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #8. To: TooConservative (#7) It was called "vandalism" ... "maybe a test run" is more correct. Back to an earlier post: You should find this interesting: Capt. Humbert Roque Versace. Gatlin  posted on  2015-02-28   7:52:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #9. To: Gatlin (#8) Unique in being a (posthumous) MOH award to a POW. And not tainted by political influence over the award itself, unlike this Kyle matter. It probably eats McCain up to think that some other POW won the MOH, not him. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-28   8:01:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #17. To: TooConservative, BobCeleste, GarySpFc (#9) O'Sullivan, Christopher Jo, (KIA), USA - Awarded: DSC - Vietnam War For years my college military fraternity alumni have attempted to contact DoD to reconsider the above officer for the MoH. I'll dig up the DSC citation if I still have it. He had a ticket home after a 1 yr tour. Heard his old team was pinned down in the jungle. Turned back went back to them and fought and died with them. When a relief went out he and the entire team were dead with 80-100 enemy dead among them. redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-01   3:14:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #18. To: redleghunter (#17) I'll dig up the DSC citation if I still have it. I don't know if it is still true today,but when I was in the army it was generally considered to be true that the only way to get a DSC was to be put in for the MoH and have it denied due to not having the required number of credible witnesses. In other words,almost everybody understood that you had EARNED a MoH,even if you didn't receive it. IIRC,Robert Howard was awarded 2 DSC's before he got the MoH. All while he was a E-5 or E-6. When I met him he was a E-7 and waiting to hear if he got the MoH the 3rd time around. All this within 13 months. Everybody that ever met or knew him was in awe of him even before he got it,and even though everybody was happy for him when he finally did get the award,he didn't need it and it did nothing to add to the respect people that knew him had for him. It was just a formal recognition of who and what he was. I'm sure the same can be said for Mr.O'Sullivan. The character required was already there long before the action that brought it to the surface and proved it. Roy Benevidez is another that I hold in absolute awe. He earned the MoH while serving was CCS MACV-SOG,when he went on a 1 man Bright Light mission into Cambodia to rescue a recon team that was surrounded with everyone wounded and unable to move. This man jumped off a helicopter all alone in a small clearing in Cambodia that was surrounded by the NVA,armed with only a Bowie knife,and carrying a medics bag. He then ran about 75 yards THROUGH the NVA to get to the surrounded team and start treating them while fighting off the NVA. I get a chill every time I think about it. I don't care who you are or how high your standards for bravery are,going on a solo Bright Light mission into Cambodia in the late 60's while armed only with a knife takes stones. www.psywarrior.com/benavidez.html sneakypete  posted on  2015-03-01   5:59:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #19. To: sneakypete (#18) I get a chill every time I think about it. I don't care who you are or how high your standards for bravery are,going on a solo Bright Light mission into Cambodia in the late 60's while armed only with a knife takes stones. Or dumb as rocks. Or suicidal. You think the military wants all its soldiers to go on such hopeless missions just because it turned out heroically one time? I don't. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-01   8:45:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #20. To: TooConservative (#19) (Edited) I get a chill every time I think about it. I don't care who you are or how high your standards for bravery are,going on a solo Bright Light mission into Cambodia in the late 60's while armed only with a knife takes stones. Or dumb as rocks. Or suicidal. I solemnly assure you that Ben was neither. I knew him before any of this happened,and he was a mild-mannered and soft-spoken man that was very friendly to everyone he met,and that he had a lot of friends. He was one of those people that was almost always smiling,and seemed to be happy with life. If being the smartest person in the room is important to you,do yourself a favor and never volunteer for SF training because you will be destined to remain unhappy if you do. I like to think I am pretty smart,and I honestly can't remember a single time I was ever the smartest man in any briefing room or training class. You owe Ben and his family an apology for even suggesting such a thing. And there is no such thing as a stupid Special Forces qualified NCO. Every single one qualifies for admission to the army Officer Candidate School,and a lot end up with battlefield commissions and retire as senior officers. Many served a company commanders and even Battalion Commanders of foreign troops in battle. One SF E-7 from the 1st Group on Okinawa was deployed to South Korean on a TDY training mission with SK Special Forces,and ended up being appointed as the Defense Minister of South Korea by the South Korean president. This happened when there was a joint team party at the end of the training mission to celebrate the successful completion of the mission,and the SK President showed up after Larry (can't remember his last name right now) had a few drinks in him,and the president asked him "What can be done to improve the SK Army?" Larry was drunk enough to tell him,and was appointed Defense Minister on the spot. Since it was/is illegal for US military members to hold positions in foreign govenments,it took the State Department to get him out of that one. He ended up retiring from the army and going to Beriut to lead one of the Christian militia there during the Civil War,and died of a heart attack while home visiting his family, sneakypete  posted on  2015-03-01   11:24:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #22. To: sneakypete (#20) You honestly think that the Pentagon wants its soldiers to go on such suicidal missions? I think they are more prudent. I see nothing wrong with giving him the medal but I don't think the Pentagon actually wants its soldiers to go into battle so poorly armed and against such overwhelming odds. Just because one guy was lucky enough to get out alive from such an exploit doesn't mean it is a good general practice to encourage among the rank and file. At any rate, I don't see the Pentagon likes sending troops on suicide missions. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-01   12:02:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #38. To: TooConservative (#22) You honestly think that the Pentagon wants its soldiers to go on such suicidal missions? You have obviously never served in uniform in a combat capacity. Frankly,none of us gave a rabid rats ass WHAT the Pentagram wanted or didn't want. What we knew was that our brothers were out there,surrounded and wounded,and if we didn't go in and get them out they would all die. There were always Bright Light rescue teams on standby at the launch sites. Every recon team took turns pulling Bright Light duty,and there was never any shortage of volunteers to go in with them when needed. There were times the Bright Light teams couldn't launch because of the weather,already being deployed to rescue another team,or even sometimes because we couldn't get the helicopters to go in right away. What make Roy's 1 man Bright Light mission so impressive that he went in all alone and virtually unarmed. There is no such thing as a combat soldier that doesn't respect courage from another soldier,and Roy had it to burn. At any rate, I don't see the Pentagon likes sending troops on suicide missions. ALL SOG missions were generally considered to be suicide missions. We were all volunteers,and we could quit any time we wanted. We were going into Cambodia,Laos,and North Viet Nam to run 6 man recon and special purpose missions in the NVA rest and training areas,and along the Ho Chi Mihn Trail. They even used dogs at times to try and track us down once they found out a team was in their area. When the NVA would find you,you and the other 5 members of our team would have to fight off literally hundreds of NVA to be able to get on a helicopter and get out. And if a team were surrounded and wounded so they couldn't move,we either went in and got them out or they all died because the regular army would not and could not go into Cambodia,Laos,or North VN to get them. We did it ourselves,or it wouldn't get done. We also went in sometimes to try to rescue shot down pilots or to recover classified gear from shot down fighter/bombers. Sometimes we went in with platoons on raid missions,and they were pure combat assault operations and even scarier to me than recon was. It was not unusual for everybody in a platoon or company operation to get wounded or killed on a mission. sneakypete  posted on  2015-03-01   23:26:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #51. To: sneakypete (#38) There were always Bright Light rescue teams on standby at the launch sites. Every recon team took turns pulling Bright Light duty,and there was never any shortage of volunteers to go in with them when needed. Okay, sure. I don't get the part where you have rescue teams at the ready with choppers available but that somehow the only weapon that guy could grab is a knife. Did the other rescue teams take all the actual guns on the base or something? To me, sending out a soldier so unarmed sounds like a courtmartial for his superiors who ran that base. No guns for a special forces operative? Obviously I am a hopeless civvy because I really can't imagine that situation on a foreign base in proximity to hostile troops where you are assembling and launching your top combat teams for rescue missions and one of them ends up having to go out without a gun. We're Americans. We do believe in providing firearms for our soldiers. As to the rest of your post, I've read similar accounts before years back. It always makes me think that Vietnam was an insanely mismanaged war that wasted a lot of lives. Not as professional as the kinds of operations we ran in Iraq. Not even comparable. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-02   5:29:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #56. To: TooConservative (#51) Okay, sure. I don't get the part where you have rescue teams at the ready with choppers available but that somehow the only weapon that guy could grab is a knife. There is only 1 Bright Light team per launch site,but there may be several teams deployed at any one time. If that team is already in the air and the process of rescuing another team that called in earlier,you are just going to have to do the best you can do until they are freed up. Not to mention all the gun ships and other tactical aircraft that go along with them. You will get a radio message telling you to escape and evade the best you can because there are no assets available to come after you. We once had a SVN AF Pilot with his Korean War era "King Bee" helicopter come into a hot LZ to pick us up after the US helicopter company assigned to us refused to try again after the first time because the lead pilot took too many hits and said it "too dangerous" to try to land. I told him if he thought it was dangerous up there,he should land and see how he likes it down here. I think he was probably put off by the 12.7mm,the 20mm,and the 37 mm anti-aircraft fire. I remember on one gun run the lead Cobra gun ship got 14 secondary explosions from his rocket run. I ended up "talking" with this guy on aol back in the early 90's,when I saw a post he made about his first combat mission in VN as a Cobra pilot,and how he asked himself "wtf have I gotten myself into now?",and how he thought there was no chance at all he would live long enough to serve another 11 months of that stuff. Anyhow,the VN AF pilot had been out screwing around and listening in on the radio,and he broke into the transmission and I heard a voice with a VN accent say "No sweat! I come get you!". And he did,with the door gunner on one side firing his WW-2 A6 Browning out the one door,and his co-pilot leaning out the window on the other side and shooting NVA with his 45 that were trying to rush the helicopter. I was working as a squad leader with a Hatchet Force platoon at the time,and since he could only carry out 1 squad at a time,he dumped me and my squad off on the airfield at Ben Het and made three more trips to get everybody else out. You know you were in a bad situation when the airfield at Ben Het was thought to be a safer place to drop you off to wait for a ride back to the camp. They had been surrounded for about 6 months and cut off by the NVA,and the only way in or out of there for supplies or anything else was by air. They were a little jumpy and trigger happy,so I made damn sure I took my jungle hat off and faced the berm when we got out of that unmarked helicopter wearing black fatigues with a load of armed Asians so they could see my face and my beard. I wasn't in CCS so I obviously wasn't there when Roy took his solo rescue ride,but I am GUESSING what happened was the Bright Light team wasn't available,but there was a slick sitting on the pad and the pilot heard about them being shot up and knew they were on their own,so he decided on his own to take off and see what he could do. Roy decided on the spur of the moment to grab a medics bag and go with him. They were PROBABLY thinking the slick MIGHT be able to land to pull them out if they could get enough tac air to suppress fire,and Roy would use the supplies in the medics bag to treat the wounded to keep them from dying. Then they got there and the ground fire was too intense to land where the team was,so Roy told the pilot to drop him off in a nearby clearing and he would go in on his own. Spur of the moment decision based entirely on what was possible,what wasn't possible,what needed to be done,and having the stones to do it. Did the other rescue teams take all the actual guns on the base or something? Was that a serious question? I carried a back up gun for my back up gun. So did everybody else on the teams that I knew about. Roy wasn't working on a team at that time. IIRC,he was still recovering from injuries/wounds from a previous tour,and was working a support job at the launch site. Plus he was attending Mass,so his Bowie knife was all he needed. If the launch site had been attacked,he would have had plenty of time to run grab his weapon and web gear. If he had been wandering away from the launch site,he would have been carrying firearms To me, sending out a soldier so unarmed sounds like a courtmartial for his superiors who ran that base. NOBODY "sent him out". This was the US Army Special Forces,not the US Navy. No insult implied,but we didn't wait around for orders when we saw something that needed to be done. We made our own damn decisions. Roy saw something that needed to be done,so he did it. In this case he went out to provide medical care,not fight. When he left the launch site the plan was to land,take on the wounded,and take off to fly them to a army field hospital for surgery,while Roy used the supplies in the medics bag in the rear to keep them living long enough to make it to a field hospital. And as redleghunter has noted,there is never a shortage of loaded weapons laying around on any battlefield. Once again,you adapt to the changing situation,and do what you have to do to complete the mission. Obviously I am a hopeless civvy because I really can't imagine that situation on a foreign base in proximity to hostile troops where you are assembling and launching your top combat teams for rescue missions and one of them ends up having to go out without a gun. As I have written before,he was attending Mass when they heard the radio call. The slick getting ready to take off was sitting on the airstrip with a warmed up engine,and the pilot was winding it up and getting ready to leave to go see what he could do with his one helicopter. Roy didn't have time to run and get his weapon and web gear,so he just grabbed the medic bag and ran for the slick. AND....,it was NOT a foreign base. It was an American base. It just happened to be a small one. I've read similar accounts before years back. It always makes me think that Vietnam was an insanely mismanaged war that wasted a lot of lives. Not as professional as the kinds of operations we ran in Iraq. Not even comparable. Are you really trying to compare covert jungle warfare with overt conventional warfare in the open desert and in cities using conventional forces? Ever see the movie Black Hawk Down? If not,watch it and note how the Special Forces NCO's that come in to organize and lead the Ranger defense operate in comparison to the Rangers. Nobody ordered them to do it,they just saw that it needed to be done so they went in and did what needed to be done. Their mission was to run around in the enemy's back yard,gather intelligence,commit sabotage,and disrupt the enemy in any way they could. That is one of the things that SF does. You were in the Navy,and you sailed around on boats. That was what you did. Different missions,different mindsets. sneakypete  posted on  2015-03-02   10:16:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #58. To: sneakypete (#56) (Edited) I was working as a squad leader with a Hatchet Force platoon at the time,and since he could only carry out 1 squad at a time,he dumped me and my squad off on the airfield at Ben Het and made three more trips to get everybody else out. You know you were in a bad situation when the airfield at Ben Het was thought to be a safer place to drop you off to wait for a ride back to the camp. They had been surrounded for about 6 months and cut off by the NVA,and the only way in or out of there for supplies or anything else was by air. They were a little jumpy and trigger happy,so I made damn sure I took my jungle hat off and faced the berm when we got out of that unmarked helicopter wearing black fatigues with a load of armed Asians so they could see my face and my beard. When you mentioned the berm at a forward firebase, you reminded me of that scene from John Wayne's Green Beret. I think that movie was an eye-opener for a lot of people about what ground fighting in Vietnam really meant. Growing up and being a kid, I simply had no idea of what the war was like for those who got drafted, very little idea even of what the terrain of Vietnam was like. They didn't cover that in Weekly Reader, if you recall those things. Of course, a movie is never the real thing. But even if it is a thing that "you have to be there" to really grasp, being able to visualize these combat situations keeps the public from being totally clueless. I only thought that Green Beret probably made things look much easier than they actually were on the ground for our troops. It was a murky war from what I can tell, even for those who fought it. We hadn't really had a war where it was so hard to tell friendly civvies from hostiles. Very very different from WW II in that way. When we advanced on Berlin, we didn't have to worry about French or Belgians shooting us in the back because they were so busy licking their wounds and kissing our ass for liberating them from the Nazis. So Green Beret remained my favorite of the Vietnam movies even though the grittiness of Apocalypse Now might have been closer to what our troops on the ground experienced. And it did have John Wayne.     : ) Are you really trying to compare covert jungle warfare with overt conventional warfare in the open desert and in cities using conventional forces? I think the military has tried to double-down on professionalism and the modern electronic battlefield as well as extensive development and use of special forces. The Vietnam draftees in a very unpopular war could never have matched far more modern volunteer forces with advanced tech and full support (at least initially) from a nation terrified by 9/11 and stampeded into a foolish invasion of Iraq. Of course, I don't think you could really directly compare the troops. There will be such huge variations in quality of recruits, quality of leadership, etc. Those were some great stories you related. You lived in interesting times even if you probably wished they weren't quite so intensely interesting at the time. As I have written before,he was attending Mass when they heard the radio call. The slick getting ready to take off was sitting on the airstrip with a warmed up engine,and the pilot was winding it up and getting ready to leave to go see what he could do with his one helicopter. Roy didn't have time to run and get his weapon and web gear,so he just grabbed the medic bag and ran for the slick. Even so, why wouldn't the pilot give him his own sidearm? Well, maybe I won't get it because I wasn't there and there's a lot more to it than my simple notions 40 years after the fact. There wasn't even room in the medkit for a little pocket gun? Yeah, I know, I wasn't there. And I obviously don't understand how the military works. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-02   11:12:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #60. To: TooConservative (#58) reminded me of that scene from John Wayne's Green Beret. I think that movie was an eye-opener for a lot of people about what ground fighting in Vietnam really meant. Growing up and being a kid, I simply had no idea of what the war was like for those who got drafted, very little idea even of what the terrain of Vietnam was like. The best movie about combat in VN/the jungle is "We Were Soldiers Once,and Young". Maybe even the best war movie ever made because it wasn't one dimensional. "Hamburger Hill" runs a close second. even though the grittiness of Apocalypse Now might have been closer to what our troops on the ground experienced. Apocalypse Now was a freaking cartoon. The parts that didn't disgust me had me laughing. It was some weird Hollywood writers idea of what drugged out combat and VN were like. Another really good movie about war that shows realistic SF operations is "Black Hawk Down",even though SF plays a minor secondary role. It is mostly about the Rangers. Even so, why wouldn't the pilot give him his own sidearm? I dunno. Maybe he didn't think about it,maybe/probably Roy didn't ask about it,or maybe he just thought he would need it if he were shot down. sneakypete  posted on  2015-03-02   16:31:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #61. To: sneakypete (#60) The best movie about combat in VN/the jungle is "We Were Soldiers Once,and Young". That was the best war movie. Pete, was it you or a buddy who listened to that fight on a radio? GarySpFC  posted on  2015-03-03   0:35:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #62. To: GarySpFC (#61) Pete, was it you or a buddy who listened to that fight on a radio? I was the guy listening in and giving the General hell during the Hamburger Hill fight. I was at our radio relay site (leghorn) in Laos at the time,and listening in on the radio. I still laugh everytime I think about the General spitting and sputtering and damn near stroking out when I told him "Any fool can talk shit from 12 thousand feet. If you want your men to charge up that damn hill again,why not land and lead them yourself?" The words MoFo,SOB,and cowardly piece of shit may have also been mentioned. He thought it was one of his own men talking to him,and was going nuts demanding I give him my name and rank. Every time I would laugh at him and say "You don't know,do you,you stupid MoFo"? Generals HATE for enlisted swine to talk to them like that. I had been listening in and went ballistic when he was talking to that 17 year old radio operator that was crying and saying "my platoon leader,platoon sgt,and squad leader are all dead!",and instead of talking to him in a gentle fatherly tone to calm him down,started screaming orders and threats of court martial at him and calling him a coward. That was the point where I lost it and went after that arrogant SOB. Leaders LEAD their men by example and calm demeanor. They don't beat up on them mentally while they are suffering. IMHO,that General (IIRC,his call sign was "Black Jack",which leads me to believe he was a descendant of Pershing)should have been court-martialed and ran out of the army,but we all know that doesn't happen to "legacy officers". He was truly a incompetent SOB that seemed to only care about his own glory and didn't give a damn about the men under him that were doing all the fighting and dying. I have no doubt he put himself in for,and got a DSC and Legion of Merit for that action,and never set foot on the ground. To finish off,the battle scene in "we were soldiers" happened in 1965. I went on a few hikes in the hills surrounding that valley in late 68 to late 69,and found the people living there then to be as unfriendly as they were in 1965 when the 1st Cav went to visit. A bad,BAD place to visit. sneakypete  posted on  2015-03-03   1:47:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   Replies to Comment # 62.         There are no replies to Comment # 62. 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