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Bang / Guns
See other Bang / Guns Articles

Title: Open carry vs. announced carry
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Feb 20, 2015
Author: Eugene Volokh
Post Date: 2015-02-20 19:58:36 by tpaine
Keywords: None
Views: 11408
Comments: 43

Open carry vs. announced carry

As I noted yesterday, the Florida Court of Appeal held that there’s a general Second Amendment right to carry guns in public, but the state can choose whether to allow only concealed carry, allow only open carry, or allow both. I noted that this is probably a sound interpretation of the Second Amendment, and especially of the Florida constitutional right to bear arms (which was also raised by the challengers).

But it seems to me that, under the First Amendment, the state can’t ban someone from wearing a T-shirt or a large pin saying “I’m legally carrying a concealed handgun” at the same time that he is legally carrying a concealed handgun. The T- shirt or pin wouldn’t be a punishable threat of illegal conduct, because it is specifically referring to legal conduct, and it offers no reason to think that the wearer is going to use the gun illegally. And while wearing such an item might draw police attention, so would legal open carry.

Let’s take this sort of “announced carry” — concealed carry coupled with a statement that one is carrying — a step further. Say that some gun rights enthusiasts start wearing transparent plastic gun-shaped things strapped to their hips, in transparent holsters — something that is obviously not a real gun, but is symbolic of a real gun. (It should certainly not look like these T-shirts with realistic-looking holsters and guns printed on them.)

When asked, the wearers explain that these are symbolic of the fact that they are indeed lawfully carrying a concealed gun. The news gets out, and wearing such a transparent item on one’s hip will become understood as equivalent to a T-shirt saying “I’m legally carrying a concealed handgun.” (Compare how wearing particular ribbons or other symbols becomes understood at times as a particular kind of statement.) I likewise think this can’t be banned; the only reason to ban the holster would be the message that it sends, which would likewise violate the First Amendment.

On balance, the effect wouldn’t be terribly different from open carry, it seems to me. To be sure, some people might lie and wear the transparent plastic model (or the T-shirt or pin) when they’re not actually carrying a gun. But on balance, the person wearing the gun-carrying symbol would be using the symbol to convey to the public much the same that open carry conveys: I have a gun on me, though I’m claiming (quite likely correctly) that I’m carrying it completely lawfully.

I’m not opining here on whether this would be good for society or bad, or good for the carriers or bad. But I just thought I’d raise this as a thought experiment, to see whether people think it sheds any light on the open carry controversy.


Poster Comment:

" On balance, the effect wouldn’t be terribly different from open carry, it seems to me. To be sure, some people might lie and wear the transparent plastic model (or the T-shirt or pin) when they’re not actually carrying a gun."

Hmm, wearing such a T-shirt when you're not actually carrying a gun does sound like an interesting "thought experiment".

Anybody got any ideas on the wording? --- Here's my first brainfart: ---

---------- I CAN CARRY LEGALLY ----------

---------- Am I? ----------

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 38.

#1. To: tpaine (#0)

I MIGHT BE CARRYING...

Unfortunately for you, there is only one way to find out.

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-02-20   20:09:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: GrandIsland (#1)

I MIGHT BE CARRYING...

50,000 primers? Too cool.

Pridie.Nones  posted on  2015-02-20   21:38:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Pridie.Nones (#6)

Primer fixation is not cool.

Carry it elsewhere.

tpaine  posted on  2015-02-20   21:56:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: tpaine (#7)

I refuse. The poster is a god-damned liar.

Pridie.Nones  posted on  2015-02-21   22:13:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Pridie.Nones (#34)

I refuse. The poster is a god-damned liar.

Lying about how many primers he has? Why would he? Primers are a critical component of ammo, and are a good store of value. And if the flag goes up they would become very valuable overnight..

So stop making yourself look like a fool over them. -- And in any case, stop bothering me with your hissy fits.

tpaine  posted on  2015-02-21   22:28:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: tpaine (#35)

In no way in HELL does the poster have or personally possess 50,000 primers other than the lip service that you buy. Such a shame that you fall to absolute bulls**t.

Pridie.Nones  posted on  2015-02-21   22:56:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: tpaine (#36)

I appreciate you trying to talk sense into this poster, but it's not right that you should be spit at for my sake.

Him not believing me doesn't really bother me at all. What bothers me most is that he isn't smart enough to amass the most important part of the ammo components. Especially after we've already had two primer shortages over the last 10 years. If he truly understood the importance of amassing them, he wouldn't have such a hard time believing I've done it.

If we collapse, primers will be like gold. If primers are ever banned and controlled by big brother, they'll be worth more than gold.

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-02-21   23:09:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: GrandIsland (#37)

As soon as I saw that pitiful line I started laughing. This idiot is a truly little person. Reminds me a bit of Yukon, much the same dumb style.

tpaine  posted on  2015-02-22   1:49:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 38.

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End Trace Mode for Comment # 38.

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