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Title: 'American Sniper': Prominent Libertarian Claims There Is No Difference Between Chris Kyle and Mass Murderer Adam Lanza
Source: http://www.hngn.com/
URL Source: http://www.hngn.com/articles/65352/ ... ce-between-chris-kyle-mass.htm
Published: Jan 31, 2015
Author: ida Ahmed
Post Date: 2015-01-31 15:56:37 by Gatlin
Keywords: None
Views: 83881
Comments: 315

A prominent libertarian activist has made controversial comparisons between the late "American Sniper" protagonist Navy SEAL Chris Kyle and mass murderer Adam Lanza, who killed 28 people in a 2012 shooting spree.

Lanza isn't much different from Kyle, a Navy SEAL sniper who killed 160 people during multiple combat tours in Iraq, Sheldon Richman, vice president of the Future of Freedom Foundation, said on Wednesday. Two years ago, Lanza shot his mother to death, then proceeded to a nearby Sandy Hook Elementary School and killed 20 first-graders and six staffers before committing suicide.

"Excuse me, but I have trouble seeing an essential difference between what Kyle did in Iraq and what Adam Lanza did at Sandy Hook Elementary School. It certainly was not heroism," Richman wrote in an op-ed published on the Future of Freedom Foundation website and reprinted by Reason.com.

"Despite what some people think, hero is not a synonym for competent government-hired killer," he added.

Speaking about the widely debated Clint Eastwood's movie, Richman slammed Kyle's actions, Breitbart reported.

"Let's recall some facts, which perhaps Eastwood thought were too obvious to need mention: Kyle was part of an invasion force: Americans went to Iraq. Iraq did not invade America or attack Americans. Dictator Saddam Hussein never even threatened to attack Americans," he continued. "Contrary to what the George W. Bush administration suggested, Iraq had nothing to do with the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. Before Americans invaded Iraq, Al Qaeda was not there. Nor was it in Syria, Yemen, and Libya."

"Wars of aggression, let's remember, are illegal under international law. Nazis were executed at Nuremberg for waging wars of aggression."

"The only reason Kyle went to Iraq was that Bush/Cheney & Co. launched a war of aggression against the Iraqi people," he wrote.

The deceased sniper cannot be deemed a hero because the American military personnel's lives that he was protecting  were the aggressors themselves, according to Richman, Newsmax reported.

"What American lives? The lives of American military personnel who invaded another people's country, one that was no threat to them or their fellow Americans back home."

If "an invader kills someone who is trying to resist the invasion, that does not count as heroic self-defense; the invader is the aggressor. If anyone's the hero, it's the latter," he wrote.

The people who Kyle killed on the battlefield only threatened Americans because "American forces waged an unprovoked war against them," he added. "No Iraqi asked to be killed by Kyle, but it sure looks as though Kyle was asking to be killed by an Iraqi. [Instead, another vet did the job.

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#21. To: TooConservative (#19)

And I am not a Libertarian for many reasons.

I say you're lying. Prove it.

"The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts

Palmdale  posted on  2015-01-31   18:50:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Otter (#16)

I'm pro-USA, are you?

Sure. Except when I'm not.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-01-31   18:57:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Palmdale (#21)

I say you're lying. Prove it.

I'm posting on an anonymous forum. OTOH, you are making statements of fact about an advertised large public event by a well-known political institute.

I take it that you are (weakly) conceding that you made the whole thing up and are mostly angry that someone saw through your lies.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-01-31   18:59:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Otter (#15)

So please explain to me in standard English what police state tactics have to do with Chris Kyle or Adam Lanza.

He's talking about infiltrator types who pose as Libertarians in order to discredit them. An old sleazy political tactic that works more often than you think. Part of the bag of tricks of character assassins for a long time.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-01-31   19:02:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: TooConservative (#23) (Edited)

I take it that you are (weakly) conceding that you made the whole thing up

Nope. And I still say you're a liar. Right down to your handle.

"The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts

Palmdale  posted on  2015-01-31   19:06:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: TooConservative (#11)

Yep, the lefties on this site are busily trying to make it a divisive issue.

And killing people from a distance has always been a big part of war. Brave men have been defending this country, in exactly that way, since the Revolution. Have you served?

If you have, you too share in the killing of men from a distance.

But killing people from a distance with a $50,000 rifle is actually no braver than shooting up a classroom of helpless little kids.

To compare men doing their duty in war, -- with a crazy murderer of children is an act of total zealotry.

How do you differentiate between these two scenarios of shooting fish in a barrel and knowing they can't shoot back?

How weird that you don't know of the use of counter snipers in war. If memory serves, military snipers have a very high casualty rate.

Because one guy has a uniform and is following the orders of one of our loathsome and cowardly presidents (who don't ever serve in the military either). ---- BTW, Eastwood says it is an antiwar movie. I take him at his word. What we see instead is the Right embracing it as a totally pro-war and pro-sniper movie which Eastwood says it isn't. The Left is merely annoyed that tokhe Right is happy about something so they picked a fight over this movie, apparently ignoring Eastwood and adopting the Right's view that it is a pro-war and pro- sniper flick.

So? I don't quite understand your zealotry about the issue. Can you explain your over reaction?

tpaine  posted on  2015-01-31   19:07:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Gatlin (#0)

fff.org/explore-freedom/a...migration-bill-overlooks/

Sheldon Richman is mentioned in the 2nd paragraph.

He's another libertarian who supports Obama's open border policy.

First, by nature all individuals — not just Americans — have rights. Specifically, they have a natural right to engage in any peaceful activity, that is, any conduct that does not aggress against other people. Among those rights, therefore, is the right to travel and settle anywhere, so long as no one else’s rights are violated. Considering that plenty of Americans would eagerly rent apartments to and hire, say, Mexicans, migration is included among the freedoms all people possess.

Second, and closely related, an ancient and honorable principle holds that an unjust law is no law at all (lex iniusta non est lex). The idea is that no one should be compelled to do what is unjust or be prevented from doing what justice requires or allows — such as freely moving about. Conservatives and progressives alike are vexed that the 11 million U.S. residents without papers violated the law to get here. How dare they! But according to the ancient principle, what they violated was a not a law but a mere legislative decree, which conflicts with the natural law and hence is contrary to justice and freedom. It is an established maxim that no one is obligated to obey an unjust law. Since that’s the case, we should not be talking about amnesty for residents without papers; amnesty implies wrongdoing, and these human beings did nothing wrong. They should be left free to go about their lives. Incidentally, there also should be no amnesty for the government officials who have harassed residents without papers rather than leaving them in peace. “I was following orders” is no excuse.

Vinny  posted on  2015-01-31   19:10:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: TooConservative (#18)

The argument is over whether it is a heroic act, whether it is an example of warrior courage in the face of personal danger.

Carlos Hathcock, Vietnam era American sniper go to the 20:00 mark and watch the mission where he nailed a General.

http://www.history.com/shows/history-specials/videos/sniper-deadliest-missions

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”

CZ82  posted on  2015-01-31   19:12:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: TooConservative (#24)

He's talking about infiltrator types who pose as Libertarians in order to discredit them. An old sleazy political tactic that works more often than you think. Part of the bag of tricks of character assassins for a long time.

Obviously he is incapable of expressing himself in standard English. Who knows, maybe he is just young, foolish and uninformed.

Otter  posted on  2015-01-31   19:13:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Otter (#29)

maybe he is just young, foolish and uninformed.

Two out of three.

"The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts

Palmdale  posted on  2015-01-31   19:19:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: tpaine (#26)

And killing people from a distance has always been a big part of war. Brave men have been defending this country, in exactly that way, since the Revolution. Have you served?

If you have, you too share in the killing of men from a distance.

Are you actually quoting yourself? Repetition doesn't improve the merits of these non-sequiturs.

To compare men doing their duty in war, -- with a crazy murderer of children is an act of total zealotry.

No, it's not. You are shooting helpless people who can't defend themselves, who never even know you shot at them until your bullet kills them. How can that be an act of bravery? By that standard, yes, Adam Lanza would be brave. By that standard, the Tsarnaev brothers were brave.

There is also a shifting standard as to what constitutes a sniper. In WW II, snipers were behind enemy lines, taking long shots and escaping, mostly targeting high-ranking officers if they could.

In the modern military, you have varieties of snipers. Snipers that shoot from aircraft, snipers that shoot from rooftops in urban warfare. And also snipers who still take the traditional long shots at high-value enemy soldiers. More often, you have what are called sniper-scouts who enter a battlefield early and provide intel and laser targeting and prep work for regular infantry to arrive and then help protect them as they go house-to-house.

So "sniper" can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. When I say "sniper", I am generally referring to the classic sniper, not the modern versions that have a lot of other roles in the military.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-01-31   19:23:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Otter (#15)

Many anti-libertarians disguise their true politics and call themselves libertarians, in order to denigrate the american libertarian movement as defined by the Cato Institute.

In actuality, these crazed anti-libertarians are also anti-constitutionalists who support police state type tactics.

So please explain to me in standard English what police state tactics have to do with Chris Kyle or Adam Lanza.

You crazy anti-libertarians should explain that to all of us american libertarians who fight against a police state. Can you tell us why you support them?

tpaine  posted on  2015-01-31   19:25:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: tpaine, Otter (#32)

I think Otter is just caught in the crossfire. He's not on any particular side.

After all, he's only been a member here at LF since yesterday.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-01-31   19:33:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: tpaine (#32)

If there truly were a police state, Adam Lanza would never have had an opportunity to slaughter innocent children, would he? You are uninformed and a fool.

Otter  posted on  2015-01-31   19:33:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: TooConservative (#33)

I think Otter is just caught in the crossfire. He's not on any particular side.

I'm on the side of common sense, law and order. Is there something about that you find distasteful or objectionable?

Otter  posted on  2015-01-31   19:35:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Otter (#35)

I'm on the side of common sense

Fighting words if I've ever heard them.     : )

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-01-31   19:39:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Otter (#34)

If there truly were a police state, Adam Lanza would never have had an opportunity to slaughter innocent children, would he?

He could have become an abortion doctor and been well-paid for infanticide.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-01-31   19:40:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: TooConservative (#36)

Fighting words if I've ever heard them. : )

To many on internet forums that seems to be true.

Otter  posted on  2015-01-31   19:42:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Otter (#38)

They're mostly just chat sites after all.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-01-31   19:53:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: TooConservative (#39)

They're mostly just chat sites after all.

Yes, but too many posters post and act as if they know it all. Wouldn't you agree? Opinions are like a$$holes, most everyone has one, but some don't believe theirs stinks.

Otter  posted on  2015-01-31   19:57:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Otter (#40)

Yes, but too many posters post and act as if they know it all. Wouldn't you agree?

I always find it painful to encounter these horrible persons on the web.     : )

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-01-31   20:06:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: TooConservative (#41)

I always find it painful to encounter these horrible persons on the web.

You mean tpaineful?

Otter  posted on  2015-01-31   22:37:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: TooConservative (#5) (Edited)

This debate is stupid and goes to show Americans were mind frakked over the Iraq war. It also does not help that post war Kyle came off as barely literate - the book of his was ghost written and probably not based on any real life events and was designed as pro Iraq war propaganda for all we know. I actually question the number of kills he did. He could have been chosen because he was not so bright and would not question his role.

Besides the proven lie that he hit Jesse Ventura in a bar fight (which was a fake story to undermine a populist anti-war/Bush persona with a bona fide military pedigree) but Kyle lied about killing carjackers in Texas and that he was flown to New Orleans during Katrina and he sniped gang members from the roof of the astrodome there. All proven lies.

so suddenly this movie comes out that is more fake than the book and this re-ignites the old debate about the Bush justified war in Iraq vs those who knew the was was BS and Kyle stands for the BS of it all.

Pericles  posted on  2015-01-31   22:46:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Pericles (#43)

those who knew the was was BS and Kyle stands for the BS of it all

I don’t even know who he is,” said Ventura Referring to Kyle. Sounds like more Jesse BS to me.

Otter  posted on  2015-01-31   22:54:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: TooConservative, GarySpFc (#5)

But how brave is it to shoot people at a distance? About as sporting as shooting a deer with a scoped rifle. Or shooting fish in a barrel. Or shooting 3rd graders at their school desks.

The SEAL Teams operate similar to other special operations...as a team. Most of what a sniper on a SOF team will do is provide overwatch for the team members.

The SEAL teams were mostly in Anbar province when I was in Iraq. Believe it or not, they did more non lethal engagement of the populace and Iraqi security forces to include training Iraqi special forces. Guys like Kyle would provide overwatch for both lethal and non lethal operations. When you have a SEAL team conducting a raid with Iraqi special forces in a confined area, a sniper functions much like a fire support asset. They have the back of the team doing the mission. The team is very exposed during an operation and without snipers, observation drones, EW assets and if all goes to pot, an AC-130U overhead the team dies.

SEAL teams are what we call white ops special forces. They are subject to the LOAC and ROE like everyone else. Comparing a Navy SEAL sniper to an elementary school murderer is frankly idiotic.

I know you and many others here are staunchly opposed to our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. As a fellow American I respect your views. The fact is both wars no matter how opposed some here are to them were authorized by our elected government and the forces deployed under and subject to the LOAC and ROE.

"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools " (Romans 1:21-22)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-01-31   23:13:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Pericles (#43)

Did you ever discuss your thoughts with those who served with Kyle? They give a different story of his service in Iraq.

Never had a problem with the SEAL teams I dealt with. Very conscious of collateral concerns and ROE.

"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools " (Romans 1:21-22)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-01-31   23:20:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: tpaine (#7)

And killing people from a distance has always been a big part of war. Brave men have been defending this country, in exactly that way, since the Revolution. Have you served?

If you have, you too share in the killing of men from a distance.

Too bad the Daily Kos was not around during the Battle of Agincourt. Wonder if all those Welsh archers would be called elementary school killers.

So yes, ranged weapon systems have been around since the beginning. As well as foot and mounted.

"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools " (Romans 1:21-22)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-01-31   23:25:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Otter (#44)

hose who knew the was was BS and Kyle stands for the BS of it all

I don’t even know who he is,” said Ventura Referring to Kyle. Sounds like more Jesse BS to me.

Ventura sued Kyle's estate and the court found Kyle lied to a great degree and Ventura was awarded almost $2 million. So, no, Kyle is a proven liar in a court of law.

Pericles  posted on  2015-01-31   23:28:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: redleghunter (#46)

Did you ever discuss your thoughts with those who served with Kyle? They give a different story of his service in Iraq.

I did not say anything about Kyle other than he seemed not too bright or ill educated based on the way he talked. I also speculated his kills maybe bullshit - like the way we heard that female soldier being raped and tortured only to find out later that the Iraqis took good care of her in the hospital - but her plight was used to push the war propaganda out.

Pericles  posted on  2015-01-31   23:30:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Pericles (#48)

Ventura sued Kyle's estate

Even though Jesse claimed he didn't know Kyle. I guess Jesse is a liar also.

Otter  posted on  2015-01-31   23:36:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: All (#43)

astrodome = superdome

Pericles  posted on  2015-01-31   23:38:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Otter (#50) (Edited)

Even though Jesse claimed he didn't know Kyle. I guess Jesse is a liar also.

What do you mean by "know" like he heard of him or he knew him intimately? And how is that relative? I mean find the quote so we can all read it in context.

Kyle lied about killing people in New Orleans in Katrina. He lied about killing carjacking Mexicans in Texans. All these kills covered up by the govt and grateful cops so no evidence can exist.

Pericles  posted on  2015-01-31   23:41:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: TooConservative, GarySpFc (#11)

BTW, Eastwood says it is an antiwar movie. I take him at his word. What we see instead is the Right embracing it as a totally pro-war and pro-sniper movie which Eastwood says it isn't. The Left is merely annoyed that the Right is happy about something so they picked a fight over this movie, apparently ignoring Eastwood and adopting the Right's view that it is a pro-war and pro-sniper flick.

Well all war movies should serve to show the horrors of war and the consequences of such. Especially for those who foment war. I don't know where the term "antiwar" came from unless one is code pinkie.

The majority of those who serve hope they never have to wage war.

I for one probably won't see the movie. Had quite my fill of the real motion picture and have the six hash marks to prove it.

"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools " (Romans 1:21-22)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-01-31   23:41:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: Pericles (#52)

Kyle lied about killing people in New Orleans in Katrina. He lied about killing carjacking Mexicans in Texans. All these kills covered up by the govt and grateful cops.

Did you get that from Kyle's book? If so, please let me know the page number. Thanks.

"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools " (Romans 1:21-22)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-01-31   23:43:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: redleghunter (#54)

yle lied about killing people in New Orleans in Katrina. He lied about killing carjacking Mexicans in Texans. All these kills covered up by the govt and grateful cops. Did you get that from Kyle's book? If so, please let me know the page number. Thanks.

Magazine interview Kyle gave: http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/2013/02/08/confirmed-american-sniper-chris- kyle-killed-two-men-at-a-gas-station-in-2009/

It was left out of the book because it was clearly bullshit.

I first asked him about the story last summer, during an interview in his Dallas office. I said: “Now, I have to ask you about an incident that I’ve heard about. I heard it happened at a gas station.”

He said: “You mean the time I shot two guys trying to steal my truck?”

I sat there stunned for a few seconds. The incredible story I’d heard, I figured there was no way it was true.

“It’s true,” he said.

He proceeded to tell me about that day. It was in January 2009, just weeks after he retired from the Navy. It was cold that morning, and he was wearing a heavy winter coat. He was driving his truck — his now famous black F350 with the large rims and impressive grill — when he needed to stop for gas. He pulled into a station right off highway 67.

As he got out of the truck, two men approached. Both had guns in their hands. One pointed his weapon at Kyle. They told him to hand over his keys. Kyle was out of the truck, on the passenger’s side.

“I told them I would get them the keys,” he told me. “I told them they were in the truck and to just let me reach in.”

He noticed the man pointing the gun didn’t seem very confident. Kyle knew what confidence with a gun looked like.

As Kyle turned, leaning into the open passenger door of the truck, he reached into his own waistband. With his right hand, he grabbed his Colt 1911. He fired two shots under his left armpit, hitting the first guy twice in the chest. Then he turned slightly and fired twice more, hitting the second man twice in the chest. Both men fell dead.

Kyle leaned on his truck and waited for the police.

http://blogs.star-telegram.com/crime_time/2013/02/did-slain-american-sniper- fatally-shoot-two-armed-robbers-in-2009.html

Truly an interesting tale, but is it true?

We searched for news stories and found none. We checked with the medical examiner’s office, which reported no such deaths in Cleburne in January 2009.

We sought an interview with Luttrell, himself a decorated Navy SEAL, but did not hear back.

We sent emails to friends of Kyle.

One, who asked to remain anonymous, replied that if Luttrell said it, then “it’s probably true.” He also confirmed that the alleged incident happened in Cleburne.

We asked Cleburne police about it and, after a day of research, they said they had no record of such a shooting. Ditto for the Johnson County district attorney’s office.

Police in Midlothian, where Kyle lived, had no knowledge of “such an event.”

Another friend of Kyle’s, Dalworthington Gardens Police Chief Bill Waybourn, replied:

“The legends about Chris abound. After this week I expect a thousand stories like that.”

But he declined to comment on whether the incident described by Luttrell actually happened.

Read more here: http://blogs.star-telegram.com/crime_time/2013/02/did-slain- american-sniper-fatally-shoot-two-armed-robbers-in-2009.html#storylink=cpy

Pericles  posted on  2015-01-31   23:53:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: redleghunter (#54)

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/c/Chris-Kyle-Shot-Looters-Carjackers-Punched-Jesse-Ventura.htm#.VM2xXWjF__E

http://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/2013/april/the-legend-of- chris-kyle-01?single=1 During the interview in which he discussed the gas station incident, he didn’t say where it happened. Most versions of the story have him in Cleburne, not far from Fort Worth. The Cleburne police chief says that if such an incident did happen, it wasn’t in his town. Every other chief of police along Highway 67 says the same thing. Public information requests produced no police reports, no coroner reports, nothing from the Texas Rangers or the Department of Public Safety. I stopped at every gas station along 67, Business 67 in Cleburne, and 10 miles in either direction. Nobody had heard of anything like that happening.

Pericles  posted on  2015-01-31   23:58:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: TooConservative (#31)

So "sniper" can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people.

I don't recall which nation's soldier said it or if it was in WW1 or WW2 but artillery spotters boasted in history book I read that they were snipers with larger guns.

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-01   0:01:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: Pericles, Redleghunter, Sneakypete (#43)

This debate is stupid and goes to show Americans were mind frakked over the Iraq war. It also does not help that post war Kyle came off as barely literate - the book of his was ghost written and probably not based on any real life events and was designed as pro Iraq war propaganda for all we know. I actually question the number of kills he did. He could have been chosen because he was not so bright and would not question his role.

Kyle was a SEAL, and stupid men do not get in a Special Ops unit. Furthermore, those were confirmed kills, and not based only on Kyle's word.

Besides the proven lie that he hit Jesse Ventura in a bar fight (which was a fake story to undermine a populist anti-war/Bush persona with a bona fide military pedigree) but Kyle lied about killing carjackers in Texas and that he was flown to New Orleans during Katrina and he sniped gang members from the roof of the astrodome there. All proven lies.

The Astrodome is not in New Orleans. I can tell you Ventura has told some whoppers IMHO. He was never a SEAL, but went through UDT training, which really didn't compare to what SEALS experience.

so suddenly this movie comes out that is more fake than the book and this re-ignites the old debate about the Bush justified war in Iraq vs those who knew the was was BS and Kyle stands for the BS of it all.

Kyle very likely told some lies, but his combat record is genuine.

“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org

GarySpFC  posted on  2015-02-01   0:04:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: GarySpFC (#58)

The Astrodome is not in New Orleans.

Yeah, well, er, um, it's only 350 miles away.

"The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts

Palmdale  posted on  2015-02-01   0:07:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: TooConservative, CZ82, GarySpFc (#18)

The argument is over whether it is a heroic act, whether it is an example of warrior courage in the face of personal danger.

Well it does take skill. And yes you have to have brass bells to be an SF sniper.

Here's a typical scenario. The team's mission is to conduct a mission in a constrained urban area. Strike time is 2200 hours. Sniper leaves alone with minimal ammunition and communications hours if not the day or night before to recon his site. He is alone, trying to blend in with locals and then he finds his spot sets up and waits...alone. No one covers him, he could be under observation thus putting the team at risk. The team shows up within his field of view or on comms. Sniper provides overwatch. If he shoots, he has to move, thus exposing himself.

To be honest I would rather be in an F16 dropping PGMs from 16k ft than have my 4th point of contact out in the wind. So they are brave and know some who are snipers in the Army and Marines. A lot braver than the internet jockies blathering about elementary school murderers. I mean it's not like flying large passenger airplanes into skyscrapers.

"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools " (Romans 1:21-22)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-02-01   0:19:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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