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Title: 'American Sniper': Prominent Libertarian Claims There Is No Difference Between Chris Kyle and Mass Murderer Adam Lanza
Source:
http://www.hngn.com/
URL Source: http://www.hngn.com/articles/65352/ ... ce-between-chris-kyle-mass.htm
Published: Jan 31, 2015
Author: ida Ahmed
Post Date: 2015-01-31 15:56:37 by Gatlin
Keywords: None
Views: 80360
Comments: 315
A prominent libertarian activist has made controversial comparisons between the late "American Sniper" protagonist Navy SEAL Chris Kyle and mass murderer Adam Lanza, who killed 28 people in a 2012 shooting spree. Lanza isn't much different from Kyle, a Navy SEAL sniper who killed 160 people during multiple combat tours in Iraq, Sheldon Richman, vice president of the Future of Freedom Foundation, said on Wednesday. Two years ago, Lanza shot his mother to death, then proceeded to a nearby Sandy Hook Elementary School and killed 20 first-graders and six staffers before committing suicide. "Excuse me, but I have trouble seeing an essential difference between what Kyle did in Iraq and what Adam Lanza did at Sandy Hook Elementary School. It certainly was not heroism," Richman wrote in an op-ed published on the Future of Freedom Foundation website and reprinted by Reason.com. "Despite what some people think, hero is not a synonym for competent government-hired killer," he added. Speaking about the widely debated Clint Eastwood's movie, Richman slammed Kyle's actions, Breitbart reported. "Let's recall some facts, which perhaps Eastwood thought were too obvious to need mention: Kyle was part of an invasion force: Americans went to Iraq. Iraq did not invade America or attack Americans. Dictator Saddam Hussein never even threatened to attack Americans," he continued. "Contrary to what the George W. Bush administration suggested, Iraq had nothing to do with the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. Before Americans invaded Iraq, Al Qaeda was not there. Nor was it in Syria, Yemen, and Libya." "Wars of aggression, let's remember, are illegal under international law. Nazis were executed at Nuremberg for waging wars of aggression." "The only reason Kyle went to Iraq was that Bush/Cheney & Co. launched a war of aggression against the Iraqi people," he wrote. The deceased sniper cannot be deemed a hero because the American military personnel's lives that he was protecting were the aggressors themselves, according to Richman, Newsmax reported. "What American lives? The lives of American military personnel who invaded another people's country, one that was no threat to them or their fellow Americans back home." If "an invader kills someone who is trying to resist the invasion, that does not count as heroic self-defense; the invader is the aggressor. If anyone's the hero, it's the latter," he wrote. The people who Kyle killed on the battlefield only threatened Americans because "American forces waged an unprovoked war against them," he added. "No Iraqi asked to be killed by Kyle, but it sure looks as though Kyle was asking to be killed by an Iraqi. [Instead, another vet did the job.
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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 291.
#5. To: Gatlin (#0)
The victims of both probably felt about the same about being murdered by them. Kyle was much braver though in that he had a lot of courage to get into position to take his shots. So Kyle's victims could take pride in a much braver and more professional murder. Otherwise, dead is still dead. Killed helplessly against hopeless odds (a sniper at a distance or a gunman in an elementary classroom) is still getting killed helplessly. But how brave is it to shoot people at a distance? About as sporting as shooting a deer with a scoped rifle. Or shooting fish in a barrel. Or shooting 3rd graders at their school desks. I think this has become a Left/Right pissing match which explains how the controversy keeps going. The rest of the country is sanely trying to ignore it.
I think this has become a Left/Right pissing match which explains how the controversy keeps going. The rest of the country is sanely trying to ignore it. Yep, the lefties on this site are busily trying to make it a divisive issue. And killing people from a distance has always been a big part of war. Brave men have been defending this country, in exactly that way, since the Revolution. Have you served? If you have, you too share in the killing of men from a distance.
I don't see why people are all upset over killing someone at 1,000 yds when you can kill them from thousands of miles away a couple hundred thousand at a time.
The argument is over whether it is a heroic act, whether it is an example of warrior courage in the face of personal danger. There is a subtext of Iraq being a phony war, at least with the Left. That is the ax they are trying to grind.
Well it does take skill. And yes you have to have brass bells to be an SF sniper. Here's a typical scenario. The team's mission is to conduct a mission in a constrained urban area. Strike time is 2200 hours. Sniper leaves alone with minimal ammunition and communications hours if not the day or night before to recon his site. He is alone, trying to blend in with locals and then he finds his spot sets up and waits...alone. No one covers him, he could be under observation thus putting the team at risk. The team shows up within his field of view or on comms. Sniper provides overwatch. If he shoots, he has to move, thus exposing himself. To be honest I would rather be in an F16 dropping PGMs from 16k ft than have my 4th point of contact out in the wind. So they are brave and know some who are snipers in the Army and Marines. A lot braver than the internet jockies blathering about elementary school murderers. I mean it's not like flying large passenger airplanes into skyscrapers.
As opposed to a few of these on the thread:
You should post that over at the site which published this piece.
copied from another site: Leslie255 Sep 8, 2012
Right there I discount the guy's rant. Actors (which is what he was a stage actor using wrestling) have stage names and many states allow candidates to run for office with nicknames, etc under which they are popularly known. To claim this is a reason he is a liar because he does not use his birth name is just laughable. And SEAL is nothing special. Ventura was in the same military unit before they were given the cooler and more catchy SEAL's name. I am not a fan of Ventura and found his conspiracy shows laughably bad - I only bring him up because he won a slander/libel lawsuit in court against Kyle proving with evidence that Kyle lied.
Wrong again! You not only ain't a warrior,you ain't much of a scholar either,bubba.
I thought Ventura was supposed to have completed the basic UDT school but left the service about the time the SEALs were created as a program. But I haven't read about it in years. I always knew he was no SEAL, no matter what he said. OTOH, who is going to sue a pro wrestler type, where anything he says he'll just blame on his phony wrestler persona. You'd never manage to nail him on Stolen Valor charges and most of his SEAL claims were made well before that law passed Congress. And Ventura was close enough to being a SEAL that he apparently gets invited to some SEALish events, like that graduation where Kyle claimed (falsely) to have given Ventura a black eye.
There were SEAL teams as early as 1964. I know this for a fact because I went through Jump School at Ft.Benning with several of them. AFAIK,all the SEALS back then came from the UDT teams,so naturally the UDT training would be "SEAL Basic Training". The SEALS came from the Navy seeing they were going to lose some of the military budget money and clout unless they developed a ground warfare group NOT called "The US Marine Corps",so I guess they figured he easiest way to go with this would be to add a ground combat mission to the traditional UDT "water and beach" missions. Frankly,I have never understood why the SEAL teams were ever created. They don't do a single damn thing when it comes to ground combat missions that the USMC hasn't been doing for a couple of hundred years now. I can only guess that the Navy brass has always traditionally hated the USMC,and wanted to grab some of the glory for the anchor clankers. IMHO,the SEALS have no business taking on ground combat roles. They really don't have the training or the mindset for it,and most likely lose a lot of people in combat that a USMC Force Recon team wouldn't lose.
I agree. I think the Army or Marines should encompass all these activities that the SEALs are in now. I don't like it when the services try to compete in combat specialties. It ends badly and wastes a lot of money. Today you see the SEALs plucking off the top recruits across the services. They should all be Army or Marines. Personally, I'd just expand the Army Rangers and put all the SEALs under them. They could have a special program for UDT-qualified operators. And the Navy could keep their own UDT specialists. SEALs should be part of the Army special forces. Leave the Marines as a separate branch of the Navy, just out of tradition.
We did give SEALs a land mission which they hardly in the past performed. Their was some discovery learning early in Afghanistan. The author of "Not a good day to die" points this out. However the Navy pushed for a land fight. All about who gets the dough.
Which is why I would prefer to see SEALs under Army control. Or set up one single special forces division. But, other than the rare underwater demolition job, every mission that all these operators carry out are some variety of land mission. Not naval, not air. So they belong with the Army. This kind of interservice rivalry has always been expensive and destructive. Congress should take firm action and correct the situation, once and for all.
All SF from each service are under USSOCOM a joint command. SEALS are best used for deep blue, littoral and coastal special operations. Not the mountains of Afghanistan. There are great purposes for them. Best they all stay under the joint command and not one service. We don't fight that way. We fight by geographical combatant commanders and the service chiefs are force providers through MACOMS. SOCOM operates in each geographical COCOM. After Anaconda the lines of operation were made clear that SOCOM elements in a COCOM report to that 4 star.
There are no replies to Comment # 291. End Trace Mode for Comment # 291.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestA prominent libertarian activist has made controversial comparisons between the late "American Sniper" protagonist Navy SEAL Chris Kyle and mass murderer Adam Lanza, who killed 28 people in a 2012 shooting spree.
#7. To: TooConservative (#5)
--- how brave is it to shoot people at a distance? ----
#13. To: tpaine (#7)
And killing people from a distance has always been a big part of war.
#18. To: CZ82 (#13)
I don't see why people are all upset over killing someone at 1,000 yds when you can kill them from thousands of miles away a couple hundred thousand at a time.
#60. To: TooConservative, CZ82, GarySpFc (#18)
The argument is over whether it is a heroic act, whether it is an example of warrior courage in the face of personal danger.
#61. To: redleghunter (#60)
And yes you have to have brass bells to be an SF sniper.
#66. To: Palmdale, GarySpFc (#61)
#67. To: Pericles, Redleghunter, Palmdale (#66)
Jesse Ventura is a liar, cheat, briber and phony Navy SEAL. Even his name is phony. He is James Janos. This is all documented in my book, “Always Cheat” The Philosophy of Jesse Ventura. My book cancelled Ventura’s plans to run for a second term as Minnesota Governor. I knocked Ventura and his son off the Government Center Plaza in Minneapolis where they were trying to befriend the Occupy Movement people, some of whom Ventura victimized when he supported torture at the Highway 55 police raid. You can find "Always Cheat" at Amazon.com or Barnes and Noble. In the Twin Cities "Always Cheat" can be found at most libraries. Or contact me for a complimentary copy. Leslie Davis, President www.EarthProtector.org 612-529-5253
#84. To: GarySpFC, Redleghunter, Palmdale (#67)
esse Ventura is a liar, cheat, briber and phony Navy SEAL. Even his name is phony. He is James Janos.
#170. To: Pericles (#84)
Ventura was in the same military unit before they were given the cooler and more catchy SEAL's name.
#172. To: sneakypete (#170)
#192. To: TooConservative (#172)
I thought Ventura was supposed to have completed the basic UDT school but left the service about the time the SEALs were created as a program.
#203. To: sneakypete (#192)
Frankly,I have never understood why the SEAL teams were ever created. They don't do a single damn thing when it comes to ground combat missions that the USMC hasn't been doing for a couple of hundred years now. I can only guess that the Navy brass has always traditionally hated the USMC,and wanted to grab some of the glory for the anchor clankers.
#220. To: TooConservative (#203)
#230. To: redleghunter (#220)
However the Navy pushed for a land fight. All about who gets the dough.
#291. To: TooConservative, GarySpFc (#230)
Replies to Comment # 291.
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