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Title: 'American Sniper': Prominent Libertarian Claims There Is No Difference Between Chris Kyle and Mass Murderer Adam Lanza
Source: http://www.hngn.com/
URL Source: http://www.hngn.com/articles/65352/ ... ce-between-chris-kyle-mass.htm
Published: Jan 31, 2015
Author: ida Ahmed
Post Date: 2015-01-31 15:56:37 by Gatlin
Keywords: None
Views: 80226
Comments: 315

A prominent libertarian activist has made controversial comparisons between the late "American Sniper" protagonist Navy SEAL Chris Kyle and mass murderer Adam Lanza, who killed 28 people in a 2012 shooting spree.

Lanza isn't much different from Kyle, a Navy SEAL sniper who killed 160 people during multiple combat tours in Iraq, Sheldon Richman, vice president of the Future of Freedom Foundation, said on Wednesday. Two years ago, Lanza shot his mother to death, then proceeded to a nearby Sandy Hook Elementary School and killed 20 first-graders and six staffers before committing suicide.

"Excuse me, but I have trouble seeing an essential difference between what Kyle did in Iraq and what Adam Lanza did at Sandy Hook Elementary School. It certainly was not heroism," Richman wrote in an op-ed published on the Future of Freedom Foundation website and reprinted by Reason.com.

"Despite what some people think, hero is not a synonym for competent government-hired killer," he added.

Speaking about the widely debated Clint Eastwood's movie, Richman slammed Kyle's actions, Breitbart reported.

"Let's recall some facts, which perhaps Eastwood thought were too obvious to need mention: Kyle was part of an invasion force: Americans went to Iraq. Iraq did not invade America or attack Americans. Dictator Saddam Hussein never even threatened to attack Americans," he continued. "Contrary to what the George W. Bush administration suggested, Iraq had nothing to do with the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. Before Americans invaded Iraq, Al Qaeda was not there. Nor was it in Syria, Yemen, and Libya."

"Wars of aggression, let's remember, are illegal under international law. Nazis were executed at Nuremberg for waging wars of aggression."

"The only reason Kyle went to Iraq was that Bush/Cheney & Co. launched a war of aggression against the Iraqi people," he wrote.

The deceased sniper cannot be deemed a hero because the American military personnel's lives that he was protecting  were the aggressors themselves, according to Richman, Newsmax reported.

"What American lives? The lives of American military personnel who invaded another people's country, one that was no threat to them or their fellow Americans back home."

If "an invader kills someone who is trying to resist the invasion, that does not count as heroic self-defense; the invader is the aggressor. If anyone's the hero, it's the latter," he wrote.

The people who Kyle killed on the battlefield only threatened Americans because "American forces waged an unprovoked war against them," he added. "No Iraqi asked to be killed by Kyle, but it sure looks as though Kyle was asking to be killed by an Iraqi. [Instead, another vet did the job.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 279.

#5. To: Gatlin (#0)

A prominent libertarian activist has made controversial comparisons between the late "American Sniper" protagonist Navy SEAL Chris Kyle and mass murderer Adam Lanza, who killed 28 people in a 2012 shooting spree.

The victims of both probably felt about the same about being murdered by them.

Kyle was much braver though in that he had a lot of courage to get into position to take his shots. So Kyle's victims could take pride in a much braver and more professional murder. Otherwise, dead is still dead. Killed helplessly against hopeless odds (a sniper at a distance or a gunman in an elementary classroom) is still getting killed helplessly.

But how brave is it to shoot people at a distance? About as sporting as shooting a deer with a scoped rifle. Or shooting fish in a barrel. Or shooting 3rd graders at their school desks.

I think this has become a Left/Right pissing match which explains how the controversy keeps going. The rest of the country is sanely trying to ignore it.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-01-31   16:55:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: TooConservative (#5)

--- how brave is it to shoot people at a distance? ----

I think this has become a Left/Right pissing match which explains how the controversy keeps going. The rest of the country is sanely trying to ignore it.

Yep, the lefties on this site are busily trying to make it a divisive issue.

And killing people from a distance has always been a big part of war. Brave men have been defending this country, in exactly that way, since the Revolution. Have you served?

If you have, you too share in the killing of men from a distance.

tpaine  posted on  2015-01-31   17:14:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: tpaine (#7)

And killing people from a distance has always been a big part of war. Brave men have been defending this country, in exactly that way, since the Revolution.

But killing people from a distance with a $50,000 rifle is actually no braver than shooting up a classroom of helpless little kids.

How do you differentiate between these two scenarios of shooting fish in a barrel and knowing they can't shoot back? Because one guy has a uniform and is following the orders of one of our loathsome and cowardly presidents (who don't ever serve in the military either).

BTW, Eastwood says it is an antiwar movie. I take him at his word. What we see instead is the Right embracing it as a totally pro-war and pro-sniper movie which Eastwood says it isn't. The Left is merely annoyed that the Right is happy about something so they picked a fight over this movie, apparently ignoring Eastwood and adopting the Right's view that it is a pro-war and pro-sniper flick.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-01-31   18:18:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: TooConservative (#11)

Yep, the lefties on this site are busily trying to make it a divisive issue.

And killing people from a distance has always been a big part of war. Brave men have been defending this country, in exactly that way, since the Revolution. Have you served?

If you have, you too share in the killing of men from a distance.

But killing people from a distance with a $50,000 rifle is actually no braver than shooting up a classroom of helpless little kids.

To compare men doing their duty in war, -- with a crazy murderer of children is an act of total zealotry.

How do you differentiate between these two scenarios of shooting fish in a barrel and knowing they can't shoot back?

How weird that you don't know of the use of counter snipers in war. If memory serves, military snipers have a very high casualty rate.

Because one guy has a uniform and is following the orders of one of our loathsome and cowardly presidents (who don't ever serve in the military either). ---- BTW, Eastwood says it is an antiwar movie. I take him at his word. What we see instead is the Right embracing it as a totally pro-war and pro-sniper movie which Eastwood says it isn't. The Left is merely annoyed that tokhe Right is happy about something so they picked a fight over this movie, apparently ignoring Eastwood and adopting the Right's view that it is a pro-war and pro- sniper flick.

So? I don't quite understand your zealotry about the issue. Can you explain your over reaction?

tpaine  posted on  2015-01-31   19:07:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: tpaine (#26)

And killing people from a distance has always been a big part of war. Brave men have been defending this country, in exactly that way, since the Revolution. Have you served?

If you have, you too share in the killing of men from a distance.

Are you actually quoting yourself? Repetition doesn't improve the merits of these non-sequiturs.

To compare men doing their duty in war, -- with a crazy murderer of children is an act of total zealotry.

No, it's not. You are shooting helpless people who can't defend themselves, who never even know you shot at them until your bullet kills them. How can that be an act of bravery? By that standard, yes, Adam Lanza would be brave. By that standard, the Tsarnaev brothers were brave.

There is also a shifting standard as to what constitutes a sniper. In WW II, snipers were behind enemy lines, taking long shots and escaping, mostly targeting high-ranking officers if they could.

In the modern military, you have varieties of snipers. Snipers that shoot from aircraft, snipers that shoot from rooftops in urban warfare. And also snipers who still take the traditional long shots at high-value enemy soldiers. More often, you have what are called sniper-scouts who enter a battlefield early and provide intel and laser targeting and prep work for regular infantry to arrive and then help protect them as they go house-to-house.

So "sniper" can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. When I say "sniper", I am generally referring to the classic sniper, not the modern versions that have a lot of other roles in the military.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-01-31   19:23:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: TooConservative (#31)

So "sniper" can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people.

I don't recall which nation's soldier said it or if it was in WW1 or WW2 but artillery spotters boasted in history book I read that they were snipers with larger guns.

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-01   0:01:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: Pericles (#57)

I don't recall which nation's soldier said it or if it was in WW1 or WW2 but artillery spotters boasted in history book I read that they were snipers with larger guns.

Generally, artillery over the last century is used against enemy armies and their assets. So you might compare artillery to a classic WW II sniper but in practice it just isn't accurate.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-01   4:08:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: TooConservative (#105)

I don't recall which nation's soldier said it or if it was in WW1 or WW2 but artillery spotters boasted in history book I read that they were snipers with larger guns.

Generally, artillery over the last century is used against enemy armies and their assets. So you might compare artillery to a classic WW II sniper but in practice it just isn't accurate.

In WW1 and WW2 artillery was used againsts snipers, etc. In fact that is still Russian doctrine. If a building has a sniper in it - blow up the building.

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-01   4:12:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#207. To: Pericles (#107)

In WW1 and WW2 artillery was used againsts snipers, etc. In fact that is still Russian doctrine. If a building has a sniper in it - blow up the building.

I have been to the Russian Battle for Stalingrad Museum in Volograd just to see Vasily Zaytsev's rifle, which he supposedly used to kill 225 Germans. Kruschev created the lie, because their is no record of the German officer he was going against existing in the German Army.

This is America, NOT Russia where lies are the standard. Go learn the difference.

GarySpFC  posted on  2015-02-01   15:00:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#250. To: GarySpFC (#207)

This is America, NOT Russia where lies are the standard. Go learn the difference.

We all know the Iraq war was based on good ole American truths.

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-01   19:10:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#254. To: Pericles, GarySpFc (#250)

We all know the Iraq war was based on good ole American truths.

I have to admit, I did like it when Powell finally admitted all the war pretexts for invading Iraq were nothing but lies. It was the first time I had any respect for him.

Former US secretary of state says information he provided leading to the invasion of Iraq is a "blot" on his record.

Colin Powell, the former US secretary of state, has said he regrets providing misleading intelligence that led the US to invade Iraq, believing it had weapons of mass destruction.

Powell, the first secretary of state in the administration of George W. Bush, the former US president, which declared war on Iraq in 2003, told Al Jazeera on the 10th anniversary of the worst terror attacks on US soil that the information was a "blot on my record".

"It turned out, as we discovered later, that a lot of sources that had been attested to by the intelligence community were wrong," Powell said in Washington, DC.

"I understood the consequences of that failure and, as I said, I deeply regret that the information - some of the information, not all of it - was wrong," said the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

"It has blotted my record, but - you know - there's nothing I can do to change that blot. All I can say is that I gave it the best analysis that I could."

Powell, who was secretary of state from 2002 to 2005, gave an elaborate description of Iraq's weapons programme in the run-up to the war, saying "ambition and hatred" were enough to bring Iraq and al-Qaeda together and build more sophisticated bombs.

"I gave that speech on a four days' notice based on an intelligence estimate that had been done months before and provided to Congress, and every word in that speech was gone over by the director of the Central intelligence Agency (CIA) and his deputy director and all experts," he said.

In the United Kingdom, a traditional ally of the US which backed the military campaign, Tony Blair, who was prime minister at the time of the invasion, said Iraq had the capacity to deploy weapons of mass destruction in 45 minutes.

Blair has since been criticised for allegedly exaggerating that claim and for presenting intelligence that overstated the case for going to war. But Powell said he did not exaggerate the information he presented to Congress.

"There is nothing that I made up; there's nothing that I stuck in there," he said.

"Some people tried to stick extra things in there that the intelligence community wouldn't verify and I said 'no'.

"And so when I presented that information, it was information that the president believed in; information that my colleagues in government believed in."

Powell said he "presented the best evidence that we had" and that the United Kingdom and other nations believed it.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-01   19:17:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#266. To: TooConservative, Redleghunter (#254)

have to admit, I did like it when Powell finally admitted all the war pretexts for invading Iraq were nothing but lies. It was the first time I had any respect for him.

I was against Bush's nation building. It was wrong, wrong, wrong.

That said, Saddam did have WMD, which were sent by a Russian escorted convey to Syria. SF confirmed everything, but Bush failed to take action. Powell failed to tell the truth.

GarySpFC  posted on  2015-02-01   20:06:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#274. To: GarySpFC, TooConservative, Redleghunter (#266)

That said, Saddam did have WMD, which were sent by a Russian escorted convey to Syria. SF confirmed everything, but Bush failed to take action. Powell failed to tell the truth.

That never happened.

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-01   21:28:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#275. To: Pericles (#274)

That never happened.

You were there as an observer?

Otter  posted on  2015-02-01   21:30:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#276. To: Otter (#275)

That never happened.

You were there as an observer?

Bush himself stated there were no WMD - not that there were and moved to Syria. I also remember the whackado theory that Saddam had a ship roaming the oceans with the WMD hidden on them.

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-01   21:32:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#277. To: Pericles (#276)

So now you believe what Bush claimed once? Why?

That memory must have been your imagination. I never heard anything resembling that.

Otter  posted on  2015-02-01   21:34:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#279. To: Otter (#277)

So now you believe what Bush claimed once? Why?

Because he had to own up to his mistake.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WMD_conjecture_in_the_aftermath_of_the_2003_inv asion_of_Iraq#Indian_Ocean

In 2003, the Jerusalem Post reported that Iraq's WMD might be found on cargo ships that were cruising aimlessly around the Indian Ocean.[52]

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-71893253.html

Iraqi WMD may be at sea

Headline: Iraqi WMD may be at sea Byline: DOUGLAS DAVIS Edition; Daily Section: News Page: 06 Thursday, February 20, 2003 -- LONDON - Three giant cargo ships that have been cruising in the Indian Ocean since last November have alarmed intelligence agencies which suspect they are carrying Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, according to a report published here on Wednesday.

The ships, which are being monitored by United States and British intelligence services, were chartered by a shipping agent based in Egypt and are sailing under the flags of three different countries.

All three have maintained radio silence since they left port and the captains have refused to provide information on their cargoes or their destinations, all of which contravene international maritime laws. …

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-01   21:38:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 279.

#281. To: Pericles (#279)

In 2003, the Jerusalem Post reported that Iraq's WMD might be found on cargo ships

So is that true also?

Otter  posted on  2015-02-01 21:42:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#311. To: Pericles, GarySpFc (#279)

06 Thursday, February 20, 2003 -- LONDON - Three giant cargo ships that have been cruising in the Indian Ocean since last November have alarmed intelligence agencies which suspect they are carrying Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, according to a report published here on Wednesday.

Closer to tramp freighters than "giant cargo ships".

Another embarrassingly stupid chapter of the Saddam/WMD fiasco and the tragedy of Iraq's destruction for the sake of Bush's and Cheney's lies and their grossly uninformed actions that have destabilized the entire region.

Remember the personal parachute kits sold to people working in skyscrapers? You suppose they all got sold off on eBay or are they in some office manager's closet collecting dust now.

How about the guy outside NYC who sealed his entire house in a giant bag made of plastic sheeting and duct tape? That was during the Great Duct Tape Panic.

And who can forget Saddam's Model Airplanes Carrying Anthrax And Nerve Agents? He was going to fly these tiny planes under GPS/computer navigation to America to hit us with anthrax and nerve gas supposedly. When his drone facility was captured, it was revealed the Iraqis couldn't master getting one to fly for 400 miles, by far their best effort prior to us shutting down the mini-drone program.

A lot of people don't seem to recall just how many lies were peddled to the public and that it could not possibly have been an error or excesses of mobilization. Or anything other than a deliberate effort to stampede the American public into invading Iraq which destabilized the entire Mideast with the results we see today.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-02 04:32:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 279.

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