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Title: 'American Sniper': Prominent Libertarian Claims There Is No Difference Between Chris Kyle and Mass Murderer Adam Lanza
Source: http://www.hngn.com/
URL Source: http://www.hngn.com/articles/65352/ ... ce-between-chris-kyle-mass.htm
Published: Jan 31, 2015
Author: ida Ahmed
Post Date: 2015-01-31 15:56:37 by Gatlin
Keywords: None
Views: 80228
Comments: 315

A prominent libertarian activist has made controversial comparisons between the late "American Sniper" protagonist Navy SEAL Chris Kyle and mass murderer Adam Lanza, who killed 28 people in a 2012 shooting spree.

Lanza isn't much different from Kyle, a Navy SEAL sniper who killed 160 people during multiple combat tours in Iraq, Sheldon Richman, vice president of the Future of Freedom Foundation, said on Wednesday. Two years ago, Lanza shot his mother to death, then proceeded to a nearby Sandy Hook Elementary School and killed 20 first-graders and six staffers before committing suicide.

"Excuse me, but I have trouble seeing an essential difference between what Kyle did in Iraq and what Adam Lanza did at Sandy Hook Elementary School. It certainly was not heroism," Richman wrote in an op-ed published on the Future of Freedom Foundation website and reprinted by Reason.com.

"Despite what some people think, hero is not a synonym for competent government-hired killer," he added.

Speaking about the widely debated Clint Eastwood's movie, Richman slammed Kyle's actions, Breitbart reported.

"Let's recall some facts, which perhaps Eastwood thought were too obvious to need mention: Kyle was part of an invasion force: Americans went to Iraq. Iraq did not invade America or attack Americans. Dictator Saddam Hussein never even threatened to attack Americans," he continued. "Contrary to what the George W. Bush administration suggested, Iraq had nothing to do with the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. Before Americans invaded Iraq, Al Qaeda was not there. Nor was it in Syria, Yemen, and Libya."

"Wars of aggression, let's remember, are illegal under international law. Nazis were executed at Nuremberg for waging wars of aggression."

"The only reason Kyle went to Iraq was that Bush/Cheney & Co. launched a war of aggression against the Iraqi people," he wrote.

The deceased sniper cannot be deemed a hero because the American military personnel's lives that he was protecting  were the aggressors themselves, according to Richman, Newsmax reported.

"What American lives? The lives of American military personnel who invaded another people's country, one that was no threat to them or their fellow Americans back home."

If "an invader kills someone who is trying to resist the invasion, that does not count as heroic self-defense; the invader is the aggressor. If anyone's the hero, it's the latter," he wrote.

The people who Kyle killed on the battlefield only threatened Americans because "American forces waged an unprovoked war against them," he added. "No Iraqi asked to be killed by Kyle, but it sure looks as though Kyle was asking to be killed by an Iraqi. [Instead, another vet did the job.

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#254. To: Pericles, GarySpFc (#250)

We all know the Iraq war was based on good ole American truths.

I have to admit, I did like it when Powell finally admitted all the war pretexts for invading Iraq were nothing but lies. It was the first time I had any respect for him.

Former US secretary of state says information he provided leading to the invasion of Iraq is a "blot" on his record.

Colin Powell, the former US secretary of state, has said he regrets providing misleading intelligence that led the US to invade Iraq, believing it had weapons of mass destruction.

Powell, the first secretary of state in the administration of George W. Bush, the former US president, which declared war on Iraq in 2003, told Al Jazeera on the 10th anniversary of the worst terror attacks on US soil that the information was a "blot on my record".

"It turned out, as we discovered later, that a lot of sources that had been attested to by the intelligence community were wrong," Powell said in Washington, DC.

"I understood the consequences of that failure and, as I said, I deeply regret that the information - some of the information, not all of it - was wrong," said the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

"It has blotted my record, but - you know - there's nothing I can do to change that blot. All I can say is that I gave it the best analysis that I could."

Powell, who was secretary of state from 2002 to 2005, gave an elaborate description of Iraq's weapons programme in the run-up to the war, saying "ambition and hatred" were enough to bring Iraq and al-Qaeda together and build more sophisticated bombs.

"I gave that speech on a four days' notice based on an intelligence estimate that had been done months before and provided to Congress, and every word in that speech was gone over by the director of the Central intelligence Agency (CIA) and his deputy director and all experts," he said.

In the United Kingdom, a traditional ally of the US which backed the military campaign, Tony Blair, who was prime minister at the time of the invasion, said Iraq had the capacity to deploy weapons of mass destruction in 45 minutes.

Blair has since been criticised for allegedly exaggerating that claim and for presenting intelligence that overstated the case for going to war. But Powell said he did not exaggerate the information he presented to Congress.

"There is nothing that I made up; there's nothing that I stuck in there," he said.

"Some people tried to stick extra things in there that the intelligence community wouldn't verify and I said 'no'.

"And so when I presented that information, it was information that the president believed in; information that my colleagues in government believed in."

Powell said he "presented the best evidence that we had" and that the United Kingdom and other nations believed it.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-01   19:17:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#255. To: TooConservative (#254)

I gained respect for him again. Where is the rest of the GOP to laud him?

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-01   19:18:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#256. To: Pericles (#252)

There is no difference

Once again you demonstrate how uninformed you are.

http://cursor.org/stories/seal_or_udt_2.htm

http://cursor.org/stories/seal_or_udt.htm

Otter  posted on  2015-02-01   19:21:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#257. To: TooConservative (#203)

I think the Army or Marines should encompass all these activities that the SEALs are in now.

IMHO,the SEALS should stick to the traditional Navy UDT stuff,as well as expand to missions like seizing offshore oil rigs,ships at sea,etc,etc,etc.

Nobody would be better suited for those missions than the SEALS.

Today you see the SEALs plucking off the top recruits across the services.

Not really. They get their fair share of the normal recruits,plus they are now getting almost all of the "Super Hero Teebee and Movie" recruits. IMHO,they are more than welcome to them.

People that are predisposed to join the Army,the USMC,or the USAF,join the Army,the USMC,or the USAF anyhow,and then apply for the special operations branches. These are usually people whose family members have a history of joining those forces,and IMHO they are the most mentally stable recruits. The guys that want to join a branch of the military to be heroes in what they see as live-action video games generally ain't the kind to stick with it and be reliable. It's not unusual for them to go AWOL when the reality of their first real combat deployment looms up,and they realize it will be real bullets and real blood.

BTW,this is NO reflection on the vast majority of the people who enlist in any branch of the armed forces and choose regular career fields. Those people are every bit as necessary in the defense of our nation as any SEAL,USSF,Force Recon,or Air Commando. Without them the whole system collapses and nothing works.

They should all be Army or Marines.

I STRONGLY disagree! Each branch of the military has their own unique "take" on the military,their own customs,and their own abilities. Just like the SEALS don't really understand ground combat and how to relate to conventional ground combat units,for the most part USSF units would have the same problems if tasked with working with the Navy on sea operations.

It's foolish to put all your eggs in one basket.

Personally, I'd just expand the Army Rangers and put all the SEALs under them.

No way,Jose! They understand beach invasions and the needs of the Navy on a level the army never will. Leave them in the Navy where they belong and can function at a level no one else can approach.

They could have a special program for UDT-qualified operators. And the Navy could keep their own UDT specialists.

Fragmentation of existing forces. Unnecessary and dangerous. Adds another level of command structure and complications. Leave them alone to do the Navy stuff.

SEALs should be part of the Army special forces.

HELL NO! Special Forces have jobs that are unique and very important,and they just don't need that distraction. Don't forget,the primary mission of Special Forces is to train foreigners to create their own armies to fight their own wars,as well as to create a air of trust and cooperation with foreign governments. Their traditional missions are training instructors and leaders that go into combat as a part of their mission to train foreign troops how to conduct combat operations under actual combat conditions. They are NOT assault troops like Rangers or traditional army infantrymen.

Leave the Marines as a separate branch of the Navy, just out of tradition.

No,do it because they have a very important traditional mission,and that is securing beach heads so that more heavily armed traditional infantry and armor units can land and move inland. They are purely a ground assault component and they have to work closely with the Navy and have a understanding of how the Navy works to fullfill their role.

Each branch has a specific mission they are trained,equipped,and experienced to accomplish,and each branch needs a seperate identity.

Having said all this,the Joint Special Operations Command is one of the better ideas the US Military has ever came up with. It is a shared command structure,and theoretically one branch will be chosen over the others for the missions they are best suited to accomplish. Yeah,there is in-fighting amongst the brass to see who can grab the most glory (not to mention biggest slice of the defense budget),but it is nowhere near the level it would be at if they didn't work together every day.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-01   19:39:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#258. To: TooConservative (#242)

It's wild speculation on your part that O'Neill is lying about something big, nothing more.

And others spoke:

"“He was still twitching and convulsing,” Matt Bissonnette, 38, said in his book, “No Easy Day: The Firsthand Account of the Mission that Killed Osama Bin Laden,” which he wrote under the name Mark Owen. “Another assaulter and I trained our lasers on his chest and fired several rounds.” Military bigs — furious over the soldiers’ breach of the SEAL Ethos, or code of silence — threatened legal action against both men, according to the special-ops Web site SOFREP, which outed O’Neill after other SEALs, angry at his disclosures, provided his identity. In a letter written after news of O’Neill’s TV appearance was announced, the commander of Naval Special Warfare Command wrote that those who violate the Ethos “are neither teammates in good standing, nor teammates who represent Naval Special Warfare.

“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org

GarySpFC  posted on  2015-02-01   19:40:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#259. To: redleghunter (#208)

In the case of Kyle he had two Silver stars and four or five BSMs for valor. Those are not handed out like candy and require witnesses and investigation. The Navy I admit is a bit more stingy on the above as I remember from serving attached to 2nd MARDIV during the Gulf War.

The Navy tends to be stingy with valor awards when it comes to Marines,but not when it comes to Naval officers. Or even petty officers.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-01   19:42:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#260. To: tpaine (#209)

When I went to jump school, (Ft Campbell 1955) it really wasn't that bad. -- If memory serves, we had less than a 5% drop out rate.

When I went through jump school at Benning in the summer of 64,we started out with a class of 525 students,and ended up with a graduating class of 187 three weeks later.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-01   19:44:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#261. To: sneakypete (#257)

Each branch has a specific mission they are trained,equipped,and experienced to accomplish,and each branch needs a seperate identity.

Excellent post!

“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org

GarySpFC  posted on  2015-02-01   19:46:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#262. To: redleghunter (#211)

In Iraq in one city we had a sniper problem. We used a low yield 155mm round to kill the sniper on top of a building without damaging the apartments below the roof.

I'll be damned! In VN recon teams hated calling in the 155's and the 175's for what was laughingly called "close combat support" because "close" was a VERY relative term back then. We didn't call it in unless we really,really needed it because we were being over ran. There could be more than 50 meters variation from shot to shot as the barrels heated up.

Good to see they have solved THAT problem!

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-01   19:48:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#263. To: redleghunter (#215)

By the time of the Gulf War, valor awards required witness statements.

AFAIK,they always required more than one witness in the US Army and the USMC.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-01   19:50:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#264. To: TooConservative (#230)

Which is why I would prefer to see SEALs under Army control.

NO,NO,NO,A THOUSAND TIMES NO!

Or set up one single special forces division.

10 THOUSAND TIMES NO!

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-01   19:55:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#265. To: GarySpFC (#238)

Pete, you are aware they receive the same advanced training as SF after jump school, and that's at Bragg and SH.

No,I wasn't aware of that.

It still does nothing to change their "Raid" mindset when it comes to ground combat. Which,IMHO,is what lead to the "Last Man Standing" situation the book and movie came from,and the deaths of almost everyone in that SEAL team.

Most of us here are Americans,and we grew up with the whole idea of "fair play".

That shit doesn't flush in combat. What does is completing the mission and living to brag about it while bringing your team out with you.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-01   20:00:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#266. To: TooConservative, Redleghunter (#254)

have to admit, I did like it when Powell finally admitted all the war pretexts for invading Iraq were nothing but lies. It was the first time I had any respect for him.

I was against Bush's nation building. It was wrong, wrong, wrong.

That said, Saddam did have WMD, which were sent by a Russian escorted convey to Syria. SF confirmed everything, but Bush failed to take action. Powell failed to tell the truth.

“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org

GarySpFC  posted on  2015-02-01   20:06:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#267. To: TooConservative (#242)

And I think it is obvious he is lying about something. Something big.

He didn't kill bin Laden. A bin Laden double was who was killed. That's why the autopsy at sea and the quick burial at sea. I'm guessing there were no organs or blood samples saved that DNA can be taken from,either.

bin Laden died in a mountain cave in the Tora Bora mountains of Afghanisan and was buried alive years earlier. He was "kept alive" by both the west and the Muslims for propaganda and political reasons.

No,I don't have any proof at all that is what happened. I seriously doubt anyone has any proof because the only way to provide proof would be to dig out the mountain caves that were hit with blockbuster bombs,and that just ain't never going to happen.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-01   20:08:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#268. To: sneakypete (#260)

When I went to jump school, (Ft Campbell 1955) it really wasn't that bad. -- If memory serves, we had less than a 5% drop out rate in our advanced basic platoon. The overall class rate may have been higher.

When I went through jump school at Benning in the summer of 64,we started out with a class of 525 students,and ended up with a graduating class of 187 three weeks later.

Wow, big class. What, - did a bunch of draftees try jump school just for laughs?

tpaine  posted on  2015-02-01   20:11:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#269. To: tpaine (#268)

Wow, big class. What, - did a bunch of draftees try jump school just for laughs?

No,but the nation was gearing up for war in VN in 1964,and patriotism was a big thing back then. It should surprise no one that probably 90 percent of the jump school volunteers were privates between 17 and 20 years of age.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-01   20:15:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#270. To: sneakypete (#265)

still does nothing to change their "Raid" mindset when it comes to ground combat. Which,IMHO,is what lead to the "Last Man Standing" situation the book and movie came from,and the deaths of almost everyone in that SEAL team.

Good point!

“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org

GarySpFC  posted on  2015-02-01   20:17:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#271. To: All (#0)

On Monday, Americans learned that the box office premiere of American Sniper, a movie about the life of Navy SEAL Chris Kyle, shattered all box office records bringing in $90.2 million. By the end of the holiday weekend, the movie was expected to have a grand total of $105 million.

Progressive filmmaker Michael Moore used this moment as a time to go on the attack against snipers with his tweet calling them cowards.

This was seen as not only an insult to the legacy of Navy SEAL Chris Kyle, credited with being the deadliest sniper in U.S. military history, but also an insult to all American military snipers and all who put on the uniform in service to our country.

Green Beret sniper Bryan Sikes took some time to pen a letter to Moore that absolutely destroyed him in an incredibly hilarious and fabulous way.

Mr. Moore- Good afternoon there sweetheart, I hope this finds you alive and well. You can thank our men and women of the armed forces for that, by the way, and that also includes us cowardly snipers. It seems you’ve found time between licking the jelly off your fingers and releasing your grasp of a bear claw to tweet some junk about snipers being cowards.

My buddies and I got a good laugh over the tweet, so I thank you. For a guy worth $50 million dollars, you sure have quite a bit to bitch and cry about. I guess like a moth to flame, you too gravitate towards things that are popular and in the moment — in this case it’s snipers. Too bad for you that your attempt at being relevant via your 70+ year old family experience has failed. It has only made you look dumber than a bag of hammers. Next time you should try something more original than going after snipers for one reason or another…that was so last month.

It’s typical of “men” like you to criticize the intestinal fortitude, focus, discipline and patriotism of a sniper. It must stem from an inferiority complex or something. But hey, it’s okay cupcake. We snipers are thick skinned and the efforts of world class turds such as yourself to portray us in a negative light only makes us laugh. If you and I were in the same room, I’d throw you a smile and gently pat you on the head knowing you’re nothing more than a mouth breathing, Crisco sweating waste of space not even worthy of being in the presence of a sniper. It’s almost funny how people like you preach things like ‘acceptance’ and ‘not passing judgement’ or ‘labeling people’, but then are the first to do so when a person is in some way dissimilar from you.

So tenderfoot, I leave you with this final thought: what if you found yourself in some sort of hostage situation where you were held at knife-point by some crazed person and they were dead set on making an example of you by bleeding you out on Hollywood Blvd in front of the world, and the only way out was with the precision aimed fire of a sniper? Would you want that coward to take the shot? Because knowing how you feel about snipers such as myself and your hatred of firearms, I’d probably drop the mag, roll the bolt and go get a Jack & Coke before helping you out.

Very Respectfully,

Sikes

Sikes, who is currently a Pro-Am shooter for GA precision Team Bushnell, undoubtedly has many people who can get behind these words and appreciate him putting Michael Moore in his place in such an epic way.

Otter  posted on  2015-02-01   20:23:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#272. To: sneakypete (#265)

https://www.google.com/search? q=seal%20advanced%20training%20at%20ft%20bragg&newwindow=1&gws_rd=ssl

“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org

GarySpFC  posted on  2015-02-01   20:27:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#273. To: GarySpFC (#272)

https://www.google.com/search? q=seal%20advanced%20training%20at%20ft%20bragg&newwindow=1&gws_rd=ssl

Bad link.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-01   21:06:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#274. To: GarySpFC, TooConservative, Redleghunter (#266)

That said, Saddam did have WMD, which were sent by a Russian escorted convey to Syria. SF confirmed everything, but Bush failed to take action. Powell failed to tell the truth.

That never happened.

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-01   21:28:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#275. To: Pericles (#274)

That never happened.

You were there as an observer?

Otter  posted on  2015-02-01   21:30:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#276. To: Otter (#275)

That never happened.

You were there as an observer?

Bush himself stated there were no WMD - not that there were and moved to Syria. I also remember the whackado theory that Saddam had a ship roaming the oceans with the WMD hidden on them.

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-01   21:32:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#277. To: Pericles (#276)

So now you believe what Bush claimed once? Why?

That memory must have been your imagination. I never heard anything resembling that.

Otter  posted on  2015-02-01   21:34:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#278. To: TooConservative (#249)

I was accurately conveying many news stories.

No, that's another lie. You originally lied, "His SEAL colleagues, inasmuch as they spoke, disputed his account..." Your new links don't say that. In fact, there were colleagues who confirmed that Robert O'Neill fired the shots killing Bin Laden, as I proved.

You lied. You're trying to cover that with new lies. I now know you for exactly what you are. You do too.

"The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts

Palmdale  posted on  2015-02-01   21:36:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#279. To: Otter (#277)

So now you believe what Bush claimed once? Why?

Because he had to own up to his mistake.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WMD_conjecture_in_the_aftermath_of_the_2003_inv asion_of_Iraq#Indian_Ocean

In 2003, the Jerusalem Post reported that Iraq's WMD might be found on cargo ships that were cruising aimlessly around the Indian Ocean.[52]

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-71893253.html

Iraqi WMD may be at sea

Headline: Iraqi WMD may be at sea Byline: DOUGLAS DAVIS Edition; Daily Section: News Page: 06 Thursday, February 20, 2003 -- LONDON - Three giant cargo ships that have been cruising in the Indian Ocean since last November have alarmed intelligence agencies which suspect they are carrying Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, according to a report published here on Wednesday.

The ships, which are being monitored by United States and British intelligence services, were chartered by a shipping agent based in Egypt and are sailing under the flags of three different countries.

All three have maintained radio silence since they left port and the captains have refused to provide information on their cargoes or their destinations, all of which contravene international maritime laws. …

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-01   21:38:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#280. To: Otter (#277)

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/no-basis-for-wmd-smuggling-claims/

ByDAVID HANCOCKAPSeptember 16, 2004, 9:20 PM

No Basis For WMD Smuggling Claims

As the hunt for weapons of mass destruction dragged on unsuccessfully in Iraq, top Bush administration officials speculated publicly that the banned armaments may have been smuggled out of the country before the war started.

Whether Saddam Hussein moved the WMD — deadly chemical, biological or radiological arms — is one of the unresolved issues that the final U.S. intelligence report on Iraq's programs is expected to address next month.

But intelligence and congressional officials say they have not seen any information — never "a piece," said one — indicating that WMD or significant amounts of components and equipment were transferred from Iraq to neighboring Syria, Jordan or elsewhere.

The administration acknowledged last week that the search for banned weapons is largely over. The Iraq Survey Group's chief, Charles Duelfer, is expected to submit the final installments of his report in February. A small number of the organization's experts will remain on the job in case new intelligence on Iraqi WMD is unearthed.

But the officials familiar with the search say U.S. authorities have found no evidence that former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein transferred WMD or related equipment out of Iraq.

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-01   21:41:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#281. To: Pericles (#279)

In 2003, the Jerusalem Post reported that Iraq's WMD might be found on cargo ships

So is that true also?

Otter  posted on  2015-02-01   21:42:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#282. To: Otter (#281) (Edited)

In 2003, the Jerusalem Post reported that Iraq's WMD might be found on cargo ships

So is that true also?

What is clear is that those who supported the Iraq war were doing all they could to come up with excuses about why they could not find WMD so the rube base that supported George Bush would not turn on him until the Bush Admin had to admit there were not any to congress. Why are you still clinging on to trying to justify the WMD excuse for the Iraq war? Pathetic.

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-01   21:45:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#283. To: Pericles (#280)

http://pjmedia.com/blog/satellite-photos-support-testimony-that-iraqi-wmd-went-to-syria/

Otter  posted on  2015-02-01   21:48:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#284. To: Pericles (#282)

Pathetic.

Your spin certainly is.

Otter  posted on  2015-02-01   21:49:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#285. To: Pericles (#274) (Edited)

That never happened.

Okay Mr. Interrnet Warrior,

Apparently you did not see the post Redleghunter made. Also, I have been associated with the SF community for over 50 years as active, reserve, and association member. Don't you think I might have slightly more information than you? Naturally, Bush would deny there were WMD.

Redleghunter. "I personally know two senior officers watching a SF drone and satellite feed from ARCENT HQs a few weeks before OIF kicked off. The vehicles and payload left no room for interpretation from their observations and of the A Team with eyes on. However requests to NCA to do something to halt and exploit the convoy were denied.
So yes, GWB is at fault for not snagging the smoking gun and possibly avoiding a protracted war."

“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org

GarySpFC  posted on  2015-02-01   22:20:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#286. To: GarySpFC (#266)

I was against Bush's nation building. It was wrong, wrong, wrong.

That said, Saddam did have WMD, which were sent by a Russian escorted convey to Syria.

I agree. Saddam used them against Iran. It's a tough neighborhood, Reagan knew he had them and used, but what he saw was a useful SOB. Good realpolitik in action, then the Bush clowns went to war over some stupid line on a map the British drew after the first world war. To rescue a monarchy that embargoed oil to America in 1973.

I'm not sure if these are the same WMD that Assad was supposed to have used against Al Qaeda's allies in Syria. If he did, he is awesome. We have a guy who used WMD against Al Qaeda/ISIS and McCain/Obama have to find sort of problem with it.

nativist nationalist  posted on  2015-02-01   22:29:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#287. To: Pericles (#274) (Edited)

Redirection of WMD Scientists in Iraq and Libya: A Status Report By Michael Roston

In the wake of the defeat of Saddam Hussein in Iraq and the renunciation by Libya of its weapon of mass destruction (WMD) programs, the United States has begun to expand the scope of its nonproliferation activities to prevent the migration of former WMD scientists and workers from these countries to other dangerous nations or organizations. The excess scientists, technicians, and engineers from the two states could pose a “brain drain” proliferation threat because of their considerable expertise in nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons. President Bush underscored the importance of containing WMD expertise from Libya and Iraq in his address before the National Defense University on February 11, 2004.1
The U.S. has been engaged in brain drain proliferation prevention in Russia and the former Soviet states for over a decade. This experience has underscored the difficulty of the mission of redirecting weapons scientists. The unstable situation in Iraq, in particular, perhaps will make this undertaking even more challenging in that nation. But, accomplishing the administration’s objectives is very important for U.S. national security.
Over the past few months, the administration has begun to roll out a number of new programs designed to redirect weapons scientists in both Iraq and Libya into peaceful employment. The major programs are being created by the Department of State (DOS) and the Department of Energy (DOE). While these programs are just getting underway, and their final shape and direction have not yet completely emerged, analysis of them based on public information and official input indicates a need for caution and clarity. In particular there is a need for a clear understanding of the number and type of scientists the programs are targeting, the incorporation into the process of the important lessons learned from the Russia and FSU experience, and the need to ensure that the multiple programs being developed and funded by different agencies are complementary and not redundant.

There is far more to this article, but it makes my point that Iraq did have WMD.

“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org

GarySpFC  posted on  2015-02-01   22:58:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#288. To: nativist nationalist, GarySpFC (#286) (Edited)

I'm not sure if these are the same WMD that Assad was supposed to have used against Al Qaeda's allies in Syria. If he did, he is awesome. We have a guy who used WMD against Al Qaeda/ISIS and McCain/Obama have to find sort of problem with it.

Syria has had its own chemical weapons program for decades. Chemical war is a 100 year old technology - I don't get why people think it is something cutting edge in warfare.

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-01   23:14:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#289. To: GarySpFC (#287) (Edited)

A report written in 2004 - well past its sell date using debunked info. The pathetic people like you who supported the Iraq war over WMD have blood on their hands. May Jesus consign you soul to burn in the afterlife.

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-01   23:15:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#290. To: GarySpFC (#285)

Apparently you did not see the post Redleghunter made. Also, I have been associated with the SF community for over 50 years as active, reserve, and association member. Don't you think I might have slightly more information than you? Naturally, Bush would deny there were WMD.

Do the Russians now consider you a spy - especially since you claim to visit Russia a lot back in the Yeltsin days under the guise of religious missions?

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-01   23:29:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#291. To: TooConservative, GarySpFc (#230)

All SF from each service are under USSOCOM a joint command. SEALS are best used for deep blue, littoral and coastal special operations. Not the mountains of Afghanistan. There are great purposes for them. Best they all stay under the joint command and not one service. We don't fight that way. We fight by geographical combatant commanders and the service chiefs are force providers through MACOMS. SOCOM operates in each geographical COCOM. After Anaconda the lines of operation were made clear that SOCOM elements in a COCOM report to that 4 star.

"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools " (Romans 1:21-22)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-02-01   23:36:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#292. To: sneakypete (#262)

Yes even when I was a 2LT we still learned the Vietnam style final protective fire FPF technique.

"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools " (Romans 1:21-22)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-02-01   23:41:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#293. To: Pericles (#289)

A report written in 2004 - well past its sell date using debunked info. The pathetic people like you who supported the Iraq war over WMD have blood on their hands. May Jesus consign you soul to burn in the afterlife.

The report refers to nuclear WMD development in Iraq years prior to the invasion, which clearly proves Saddam was developing them.

“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org

GarySpFC  posted on  2015-02-01   23:41:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#294. To: Otter (#275)

You were there as an observer?

There were those human shields Saddam had back then:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shield_action_to_Iraq

Wonder what happened to them.

"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools " (Romans 1:21-22)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-02-01   23:45:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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