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Title: 'American Sniper': Prominent Libertarian Claims There Is No Difference Between Chris Kyle and Mass Murderer Adam Lanza
Source:
http://www.hngn.com/
URL Source: http://www.hngn.com/articles/65352/ ... ce-between-chris-kyle-mass.htm
Published: Jan 31, 2015
Author: ida Ahmed
Post Date: 2015-01-31 15:56:37 by Gatlin
Keywords: None
Views: 80347
Comments: 315
A prominent libertarian activist has made controversial comparisons between the late "American Sniper" protagonist Navy SEAL Chris Kyle and mass murderer Adam Lanza, who killed 28 people in a 2012 shooting spree. Lanza isn't much different from Kyle, a Navy SEAL sniper who killed 160 people during multiple combat tours in Iraq, Sheldon Richman, vice president of the Future of Freedom Foundation, said on Wednesday. Two years ago, Lanza shot his mother to death, then proceeded to a nearby Sandy Hook Elementary School and killed 20 first-graders and six staffers before committing suicide. "Excuse me, but I have trouble seeing an essential difference between what Kyle did in Iraq and what Adam Lanza did at Sandy Hook Elementary School. It certainly was not heroism," Richman wrote in an op-ed published on the Future of Freedom Foundation website and reprinted by Reason.com. "Despite what some people think, hero is not a synonym for competent government-hired killer," he added. Speaking about the widely debated Clint Eastwood's movie, Richman slammed Kyle's actions, Breitbart reported. "Let's recall some facts, which perhaps Eastwood thought were too obvious to need mention: Kyle was part of an invasion force: Americans went to Iraq. Iraq did not invade America or attack Americans. Dictator Saddam Hussein never even threatened to attack Americans," he continued. "Contrary to what the George W. Bush administration suggested, Iraq had nothing to do with the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. Before Americans invaded Iraq, Al Qaeda was not there. Nor was it in Syria, Yemen, and Libya." "Wars of aggression, let's remember, are illegal under international law. Nazis were executed at Nuremberg for waging wars of aggression." "The only reason Kyle went to Iraq was that Bush/Cheney & Co. launched a war of aggression against the Iraqi people," he wrote. The deceased sniper cannot be deemed a hero because the American military personnel's lives that he was protecting were the aggressors themselves, according to Richman, Newsmax reported. "What American lives? The lives of American military personnel who invaded another people's country, one that was no threat to them or their fellow Americans back home." If "an invader kills someone who is trying to resist the invasion, that does not count as heroic self-defense; the invader is the aggressor. If anyone's the hero, it's the latter," he wrote. The people who Kyle killed on the battlefield only threatened Americans because "American forces waged an unprovoked war against them," he added. "No Iraqi asked to be killed by Kyle, but it sure looks as though Kyle was asking to be killed by an Iraqi. [Instead, another vet did the job.
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#229. To: redleghunter (#214)
Of course. The UN had put seals on them and transporting them was forbidden. Saddam was obeying the UN. Of course. They wanted the barrels to store drinking water, anticipating that the invasion would lead to water shortages, a very serious matter in a desert country. Happens especially often when you ingest contaminated food and fluids.
Which is why I would prefer to see SEALs under Army control. Or set up one single special forces division. But, other than the rare underwater demolition job, every mission that all these operators carry out are some variety of land mission. Not naval, not air. So they belong with the Army. This kind of interservice rivalry has always been expensive and destructive. Congress should take firm action and correct the situation, once and for all.
There is as much rivalry, jealousy, envy, selfishness and clamoring for power in Congress as there is in the military.
You're not cheering me up any yet. : )
There must be dozens of Roscoe's.
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
Kinda like the old Kilroy bit from WW II and Korea.
You really don't have a clue what you're discussing. SEALS and Special Forces are very different from Marines and Rangers. As but one example, the medic in these units are far better trained than registered nurses, and can even perform some surgical operations.
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
Ventura was never a SEAL, but was in a UDT unit.
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
The fact that Ventura tells this story proves he lied.
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
Pete, you are aware they receive the same advanced training as SF after jump school, and that's at Bragg and SH.
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
Looks like he's about to hang himself again.
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
I have to defer to your expertise. I just don't follow the retreads and zombies and newbs very closely. People have to hang around for a while for me to notice much.
The "Quiet Professionals Code" is the same for SF and SEALS. BTW, He donated all monies from his book.
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
It was an unauthorized book. His SEAL colleagues, inasmuch as they spoke, disputed his account and said he shouldn't have written it. Not one defended his book. And there are various ways to profit from something. I would have to see proof that he did not profit indirectly from the book before I believe it. Even so, he seems to have launched a very lucrative career as a speaker, trading on his reputation as bin Laden's killer. Why else would anyone want him? Fees range from $10K to $75K and up. You can book him to speak at your event here. He sure seems to be intent on cashing in on his fame. And I think it is obvious he is lying about something. Something big.
Okay. Which one were you talking about?
"The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts
I say you're lying. "It’s a strange place I find myself these days, in my late 30s, and faced with the reality of friends, SEAL brothers, lost and gone from my life. The most recent include my friend Chris Kyle, who was killed last month, and Glen Doherty, who died six months earlier... Chris took no pleasure in taking lives as a sniper, and he doesn’t deserve the criticism that some, including Representative Ron Paul of Texas, have leveled at him. He did what his country asked of him, and did it well. His family also sacrificed greatly and deserved a moment of dignity in his death. As citizens we all share some responsibility for what this country does to defend and protect its borders. After life in the SEALs, Chris donated profits from his book, “American Sniper,” to a charity started by the mother of a fallen teammate, Marc Lee, America’s Mighty Warriors." Brandon Webb is a former Navy SEAL, author of a memoir, “The Red Circle,” and editor in chief of Sofrep (Special Operations Forces Report). "The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts
God, you are such a moron. We were discussing Robert O'Neill, not Chris Kyle. So before you jump in with both feet in your mouth, maybe you should work on your reading comprehension.
You always lie. "The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts
After you made a false accusation due to your poor reading habits, that is quite funny. Thank you, Mr. Projection.
You're caught lying and your defense is that you were lying about somebody else. That's pathological. "Colleagues confirm that Robert O'Neill fired shots killing Bin Laden..." But you won't retract your lie about Robert O'Neill, will ya?
"The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts
I wasn't lying. I was accurately conveying many news stories. You are the one desperately grasping at your own fabrications as they crumble before you. What a sad pathetic specimen you are. What else ya got, Sparky?
We all know the Iraq war was based on good ole American truths.
IMHO,the SEALS should stick to the traditional Navy UDT stuff,as well as expand to missions like seizing offshore oil rigs,ships at sea,etc,etc,etc. Nobody would be better suited for those missions than the SEALS.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
There is no difference other than a re-branding and some land mission work. The UDT is the more impressive over the land warfare capacities.
The court verdict agreed with Ventura over that proven liar Kyle. You as a Christian (Protestant) I laugh at your defending a liar proud of inventing a lie where he gunned down people in the streets of New Orleans.
I have to admit, I did like it when Powell finally admitted all the war pretexts for invading Iraq were nothing but lies. It was the first time I had any respect for him. Colin Powell, the former US secretary of state, has said he regrets providing misleading intelligence that led the US to invade Iraq, believing it had weapons of mass destruction. Powell, the first secretary of state in the administration of George W. Bush, the former US president, which declared war on Iraq in 2003, told Al Jazeera on the 10th anniversary of the worst terror attacks on US soil that the information was a "blot on my record". "It turned out, as we discovered later, that a lot of sources that had been attested to by the intelligence community were wrong," Powell said in Washington, DC. "I understood the consequences of that failure and, as I said, I deeply regret that the information - some of the information, not all of it - was wrong," said the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. "It has blotted my record, but - you know - there's nothing I can do to change that blot. All I can say is that I gave it the best analysis that I could." Powell, who was secretary of state from 2002 to 2005, gave an elaborate description of Iraq's weapons programme in the run-up to the war, saying "ambition and hatred" were enough to bring Iraq and al-Qaeda together and build more sophisticated bombs. "I gave that speech on a four days' notice based on an intelligence estimate that had been done months before and provided to Congress, and every word in that speech was gone over by the director of the Central intelligence Agency (CIA) and his deputy director and all experts," he said. In the United Kingdom, a traditional ally of the US which backed the military campaign, Tony Blair, who was prime minister at the time of the invasion, said Iraq had the capacity to deploy weapons of mass destruction in 45 minutes. Blair has since been criticised for allegedly exaggerating that claim and for presenting intelligence that overstated the case for going to war. But Powell said he did not exaggerate the information he presented to Congress. "There is nothing that I made up; there's nothing that I stuck in there," he said. "Some people tried to stick extra things in there that the intelligence community wouldn't verify and I said 'no'. "And so when I presented that information, it was information that the president believed in; information that my colleagues in government believed in." Powell said he "presented the best evidence that we had" and that the United Kingdom and other nations believed it.
I gained respect for him again. Where is the rest of the GOP to laud him?
Once again you demonstrate how uninformed you are. http://cursor.org/stories/seal_or_udt_2.htm http://cursor.org/stories/seal_or_udt.htm
IMHO,the SEALS should stick to the traditional Navy UDT stuff,as well as expand to missions like seizing offshore oil rigs,ships at sea,etc,etc,etc. Nobody would be better suited for those missions than the SEALS. Today you see the SEALs plucking off the top recruits across the services. Not really. They get their fair share of the normal recruits,plus they are now getting almost all of the "Super Hero Teebee and Movie" recruits. IMHO,they are more than welcome to them. People that are predisposed to join the Army,the USMC,or the USAF,join the Army,the USMC,or the USAF anyhow,and then apply for the special operations branches. These are usually people whose family members have a history of joining those forces,and IMHO they are the most mentally stable recruits. The guys that want to join a branch of the military to be heroes in what they see as live-action video games generally ain't the kind to stick with it and be reliable. It's not unusual for them to go AWOL when the reality of their first real combat deployment looms up,and they realize it will be real bullets and real blood. BTW,this is NO reflection on the vast majority of the people who enlist in any branch of the armed forces and choose regular career fields. Those people are every bit as necessary in the defense of our nation as any SEAL,USSF,Force Recon,or Air Commando. Without them the whole system collapses and nothing works. They should all be Army or Marines. I STRONGLY disagree! Each branch of the military has their own unique "take" on the military,their own customs,and their own abilities. Just like the SEALS don't really understand ground combat and how to relate to conventional ground combat units,for the most part USSF units would have the same problems if tasked with working with the Navy on sea operations. It's foolish to put all your eggs in one basket. Personally, I'd just expand the Army Rangers and put all the SEALs under them. No way,Jose! They understand beach invasions and the needs of the Navy on a level the army never will. Leave them in the Navy where they belong and can function at a level no one else can approach. They could have a special program for UDT-qualified operators. And the Navy could keep their own UDT specialists. Fragmentation of existing forces. Unnecessary and dangerous. Adds another level of command structure and complications. Leave them alone to do the Navy stuff. SEALs should be part of the Army special forces. HELL NO! Special Forces have jobs that are unique and very important,and they just don't need that distraction. Don't forget,the primary mission of Special Forces is to train foreigners to create their own armies to fight their own wars,as well as to create a air of trust and cooperation with foreign governments. Their traditional missions are training instructors and leaders that go into combat as a part of their mission to train foreign troops how to conduct combat operations under actual combat conditions. They are NOT assault troops like Rangers or traditional army infantrymen. Leave the Marines as a separate branch of the Navy, just out of tradition. No,do it because they have a very important traditional mission,and that is securing beach heads so that more heavily armed traditional infantry and armor units can land and move inland. They are purely a ground assault component and they have to work closely with the Navy and have a understanding of how the Navy works to fullfill their role. Each branch has a specific mission they are trained,equipped,and experienced to accomplish,and each branch needs a seperate identity. Having said all this,the Joint Special Operations Command is one of the better ideas the US Military has ever came up with. It is a shared command structure,and theoretically one branch will be chosen over the others for the missions they are best suited to accomplish. Yeah,there is in-fighting amongst the brass to see who can grab the most glory (not to mention biggest slice of the defense budget),but it is nowhere near the level it would be at if they didn't work together every day.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
It's wild speculation on your part that O'Neill is lying about something big, nothing more. And others spoke: "“He was still twitching and convulsing,” Matt Bissonnette, 38, said in his book, “No Easy Day: The Firsthand Account of the Mission that Killed Osama Bin Laden,” which he wrote under the name Mark Owen. “Another assaulter and I trained our lasers on his chest and fired several rounds.” Military bigs — furious over the soldiers’ breach of the SEAL Ethos, or code of silence — threatened legal action against both men, according to the special-ops Web site SOFREP, which outed O’Neill after other SEALs, angry at his disclosures, provided his identity. In a letter written after news of O’Neill’s TV appearance was announced, the commander of Naval Special Warfare Command wrote that those who violate the Ethos “are neither teammates in good standing, nor teammates who represent Naval Special Warfare.
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
The Navy tends to be stingy with valor awards when it comes to Marines,but not when it comes to Naval officers. Or even petty officers.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
When I went through jump school at Benning in the summer of 64,we started out with a class of 525 students,and ended up with a graduating class of 187 three weeks later.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Excellent post!
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
I'll be damned! In VN recon teams hated calling in the 155's and the 175's for what was laughingly called "close combat support" because "close" was a VERY relative term back then. We didn't call it in unless we really,really needed it because we were being over ran. There could be more than 50 meters variation from shot to shot as the barrels heated up. Good to see they have solved THAT problem!
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
AFAIK,they always required more than one witness in the US Army and the USMC.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
NO,NO,NO,A THOUSAND TIMES NO! Or set up one single special forces division. 10 THOUSAND TIMES NO!
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
No,I wasn't aware of that. It still does nothing to change their "Raid" mindset when it comes to ground combat. Which,IMHO,is what lead to the "Last Man Standing" situation the book and movie came from,and the deaths of almost everyone in that SEAL team. Most of us here are Americans,and we grew up with the whole idea of "fair play". That shit doesn't flush in combat. What does is completing the mission and living to brag about it while bringing your team out with you.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
I was against Bush's nation building. It was wrong, wrong, wrong. That said, Saddam did have WMD, which were sent by a Russian escorted convey to Syria. SF confirmed everything, but Bush failed to take action. Powell failed to tell the truth.
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
He didn't kill bin Laden. A bin Laden double was who was killed. That's why the autopsy at sea and the quick burial at sea. I'm guessing there were no organs or blood samples saved that DNA can be taken from,either. bin Laden died in a mountain cave in the Tora Bora mountains of Afghanisan and was buried alive years earlier. He was "kept alive" by both the west and the Muslims for propaganda and political reasons. No,I don't have any proof at all that is what happened. I seriously doubt anyone has any proof because the only way to provide proof would be to dig out the mountain caves that were hit with blockbuster bombs,and that just ain't never going to happen.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
When I went to jump school, (Ft Campbell 1955) it really wasn't that bad. -- If memory serves, we had less than a 5% drop out rate in our advanced basic platoon. The overall class rate may have been higher. Wow, big class. What, - did a bunch of draftees try jump school just for laughs?
No,but the nation was gearing up for war in VN in 1964,and patriotism was a big thing back then. It should surprise no one that probably 90 percent of the jump school volunteers were privates between 17 and 20 years of age.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Comments (270 - 315) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestThere were, however, radiological materials still at Tuwaitha before ground forces arrived.
I don't remember the exact materials, but hundreds of HAZMAT 55gal barrels were found empty, and many looted and found in homes later. The site was sealed and guarded. Medical teams monitored and tested soldiers who came in contact with the site or barrels.
The leukemia occurrence increase for the civilian population near the site increased a few years later.
#230. To: redleghunter (#220)
However the Navy pushed for a land fight. All about who gets the dough.
#231. To: TooConservative (#230)
Congress should take firm action
#232. To: Otter (#231)
#233. To: Palmdale (#227)
#234. To: CZ82 (#233)
There must be dozens of Roscoe's.
#235. To: Pericles (#82)
Fit, yes. Bright?
#236. To: Pericles (#84)
And SEAL is nothing special. Ventura was in the same military unit before they were given the cooler and more catchy SEAL's name.
#237. To: Pericles (#88)
#238. To: sneakypete (#192)
(Edited)
IMHO,the SEALS have no business taking on ground combat roles. They really don't have the training or the mindset for it,and most likely lose a lot of people in combat that a USMC Force Recon team wouldn't lose.
#239. To: TooConservative (#146)
#240. To: CZ82 (#239)
Looks like he's about to hang himself again.
#241. To: TooConservative (#226)
He already broke the SEAL code that there is no such thing as a one-man operation. He did it to grab money and fame.
#242. To: GarySpFC (#241)
BTW, He donated all monies from his book.
#243. To: CZ82 (#233)
There must be dozens of Roscoe's.
#244. To: TooConservative (#242)
His SEAL colleagues, inasmuch as they spoke, disputed his account and said he shouldn't have written it. Not one defended his book.
#245. To: Palmdale (#244)
I say you're lying.
Chris donated profits from his book, “American Sniper,”
#246. To: TooConservative (#245)
His SEAL colleagues, inasmuch as they spoke, disputed his account
#247. To: Palmdale (#246)
You always lie.
#248. To: TooConservative (#247)
After you made a false accusation due to your poor reading habits
#249. To: Palmdale (#248)
But you won't retract your lie about Robert O'Neill, will ya?
Did Robert O'Neill really kill bin Laden?(Opinion) - CNN.com
Ex-Navy Seals' dispute over who shot Osama Bin Laden - BBC News
Bin Laden's Shooter Goes Public, But Fellow SEALs Dispute ...
#250. To: GarySpFC (#207)
This is America, NOT Russia where lies are the standard. Go learn the difference.
#251. To: TooConservative (#203)
I think the Army or Marines should encompass all these activities that the SEALs are in now.
#252. To: GarySpFC (#236)
(Edited)
Ventura was never a SEAL, but was in a UDT unit.
#253. To: GarySpFC (#237)
(Edited)
The fact that Ventura tells this story proves he lied.
#254. To: Pericles, GarySpFc (#250)
We all know the Iraq war was based on good ole American truths.
Former US secretary of state says information he provided leading to the invasion of Iraq is a "blot" on his record.
#255. To: TooConservative (#254)
#256. To: Pericles (#252)
There is no difference
#257. To: TooConservative (#203)
I think the Army or Marines should encompass all these activities that the SEALs are in now.
#258. To: TooConservative (#242)
#259. To: redleghunter (#208)
In the case of Kyle he had two Silver stars and four or five BSMs for valor. Those are not handed out like candy and require witnesses and investigation. The Navy I admit is a bit more stingy on the above as I remember from serving attached to 2nd MARDIV during the Gulf War.
#260. To: tpaine (#209)
When I went to jump school, (Ft Campbell 1955) it really wasn't that bad. -- If memory serves, we had less than a 5% drop out rate.
#261. To: sneakypete (#257)
Each branch has a specific mission they are trained,equipped,and experienced to accomplish,and each branch needs a seperate identity.
#262. To: redleghunter (#211)
In Iraq in one city we had a sniper problem. We used a low yield 155mm round to kill the sniper on top of a building without damaging the apartments below the roof.
#263. To: redleghunter (#215)
By the time of the Gulf War, valor awards required witness statements.
#264. To: TooConservative (#230)
Which is why I would prefer to see SEALs under Army control.
#265. To: GarySpFC (#238)
Pete, you are aware they receive the same advanced training as SF after jump school, and that's at Bragg and SH.
#266. To: TooConservative, Redleghunter (#254)
have to admit, I did like it when Powell finally admitted all the war pretexts for invading Iraq were nothing but lies. It was the first time I had any respect for him.
#267. To: TooConservative (#242)
And I think it is obvious he is lying about something. Something big.
#268. To: sneakypete (#260)
When I went through jump school at Benning in the summer of 64,we started out with a class of 525 students,and ended up with a graduating class of 187 three weeks later.
#269. To: tpaine (#268)
Wow, big class. What, - did a bunch of draftees try jump school just for laughs?
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