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Title: 'American Sniper': Prominent Libertarian Claims There Is No Difference Between Chris Kyle and Mass Murderer Adam Lanza
Source:
http://www.hngn.com/
URL Source: http://www.hngn.com/articles/65352/ ... ce-between-chris-kyle-mass.htm
Published: Jan 31, 2015
Author: ida Ahmed
Post Date: 2015-01-31 15:56:37 by Gatlin
Keywords: None
Views: 81053
Comments: 315
A prominent libertarian activist has made controversial comparisons between the late "American Sniper" protagonist Navy SEAL Chris Kyle and mass murderer Adam Lanza, who killed 28 people in a 2012 shooting spree. Lanza isn't much different from Kyle, a Navy SEAL sniper who killed 160 people during multiple combat tours in Iraq, Sheldon Richman, vice president of the Future of Freedom Foundation, said on Wednesday. Two years ago, Lanza shot his mother to death, then proceeded to a nearby Sandy Hook Elementary School and killed 20 first-graders and six staffers before committing suicide. "Excuse me, but I have trouble seeing an essential difference between what Kyle did in Iraq and what Adam Lanza did at Sandy Hook Elementary School. It certainly was not heroism," Richman wrote in an op-ed published on the Future of Freedom Foundation website and reprinted by Reason.com. "Despite what some people think, hero is not a synonym for competent government-hired killer," he added. Speaking about the widely debated Clint Eastwood's movie, Richman slammed Kyle's actions, Breitbart reported. "Let's recall some facts, which perhaps Eastwood thought were too obvious to need mention: Kyle was part of an invasion force: Americans went to Iraq. Iraq did not invade America or attack Americans. Dictator Saddam Hussein never even threatened to attack Americans," he continued. "Contrary to what the George W. Bush administration suggested, Iraq had nothing to do with the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. Before Americans invaded Iraq, Al Qaeda was not there. Nor was it in Syria, Yemen, and Libya." "Wars of aggression, let's remember, are illegal under international law. Nazis were executed at Nuremberg for waging wars of aggression." "The only reason Kyle went to Iraq was that Bush/Cheney & Co. launched a war of aggression against the Iraqi people," he wrote. The deceased sniper cannot be deemed a hero because the American military personnel's lives that he was protecting were the aggressors themselves, according to Richman, Newsmax reported. "What American lives? The lives of American military personnel who invaded another people's country, one that was no threat to them or their fellow Americans back home." If "an invader kills someone who is trying to resist the invasion, that does not count as heroic self-defense; the invader is the aggressor. If anyone's the hero, it's the latter," he wrote. The people who Kyle killed on the battlefield only threatened Americans because "American forces waged an unprovoked war against them," he added. "No Iraqi asked to be killed by Kyle, but it sure looks as though Kyle was asking to be killed by an Iraqi. [Instead, another vet did the job.
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#138. To: Pericles (#134)
Maybe. My understanding is that a single shot from a sniper has to be awesomely skillful (very long distance) and the operator has to be in considerable danger while taking it. Getting medals for a single-shot is pretty rare. Our military has some truly great shooters. Even our regular Army infantry have some very scary shooters in the ranks.
Our military has some truly great shooters. Even our regular Army infantry have some very scary shooters in the ranks. The article made it sound the tank crew got left behind and the tank driver probably had his head exposed outside of the hatch.
Your stubborn ignorance is pathetic, lefty. www.thefreedictionary.com/article www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/article a piece of writing about a particular subject that is included in a magazine, newspaper, etc.
Exactly so. The blather over this movie is just a continuation of the same fight the Left and Right were having back before the Bush surge and after it. Lots of people have deep opinions of it despite never seeing it. That should tell us a lot.
Notice how the Kyle fanbois seem to disappear as his lies about killing two guys at the Texas gas station come up and especially his bragging (lies) about running a sniper operation against civilians during Katrina? Suddenly they aren't quite so interested in Kyle.
His death and the Ventura lawsuit kinda ruined the planned narratives and book/movie deal. Along with some of the other info that has surfaced. Take a look at Fox News sometime. Even as recently as a few years ago, every guest on FNC was hawking a book. Every one of them. Including all the hosts. It was a bookselling behemoth, one long infomercial for Murdoch-owned publishing houses. Doesn't Murdoch own Regnery as well as Harper? Apparently, they overdid the book schtick so they cut way back on book promotions the last few years. Even O'Blather has stopped hawking his ghostwritten Killing Kennedy/Lincoln/Patton/Jesus books which he promoted for free on virtually every show. And FNC didn't allow that much free advertising unless Murdoch said so. Because he was making even more money and building up his publishing empire as a result of these "free" ads.
Actually, I supported the invasion of Afghanistan. I opposed the nationbuilding efforts which will soon reach their inevitable failure as I said all along. I'm not prophetic but these things never end well unless you're willing to garrison a country for at least 50 years. Believing most of the lies told by Powell at the U.N. and the Bush crew in general as they stampeded the public into the Iraq war, I did support the Iraq invasion. But I turned against it when the lies were exposed by the findings at al-Tuwaitha, Saddam's nuclear reservation. The article is by a team from Texas Tech, probably not a Lefty bastion given it is located in Lubbock. The rest of the phony evidence, like Powell's mobile anthrax lab trucks, only piled on. And in Iraq, as in every other conflict, I did oppose any attempts at nationbuilding. I consider our military is in the business of nationbreaking, not nationbuilding. Kill their leaders, kill their military, leave the civilians alone, tell them not to do it again and leave. In Iraq, as in so many other places we've invaded, the problem wasn't in knocking off the local government, it was sticking around afterward. At any rate, I thought I would clarify that I was by no means opposed to either the Iraq invasion at the time or the Afghan invasion.
And already a page and a half of useless inflammatory drivel. Who knows, maybe he is just old, foolish and uninformed.
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
He's just new. I don't think LF wants to pull the Viking Kitty routine on newcomers. Of course, he could be a retread type but that always becomes evident in short order.
After all, he's only been a member here at LF since yesterday. ---- TooConservative CZ82 --- And already a page and a half of useless inflammatory drivel. Who knows, maybe he is just old, foolish and uninformed. 'Otter' reminds me of a clown I had fun with on FR. -- His main weird shtick was commenting about my supposed inability to write understandable english. After a few exchanges, his inability to understand clearly written english was evident to all. Perhaps he was dyslexic. I can't remember the handle he used on FR, but I think it had something to do with Texas. -- Maybe 'texaggie'?
Ya think? And he'll accuse someone else of being a retread. LOL.
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
Yeah but hasn't that been done to death already? : )
Not Roscoe? Or maybe just another one in a long line of screen names?
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
I don't think he's the legendary Roscoe.
"The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts
Not with him he never seems to learn how to become a useful member of society. Guess being trapped in a cardboard box 8 mos out of the year does that to a person.
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
Palmdale is obviously roscoe/mojave/whitesands/etc... 'Texaggie' doesn't seem to fit in with the desert series names, but who knows what connections go on in the minds of these weirdos?
Legendary at what?
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
Ventura still claims he was a SEAL,but he was a UDT Team member in the Philippines when the Navy was doing away with UDT and was asked to volunteer for a SEAL team that was going to be deployed to VN,and Ventura refused. None of which kept him from claiming he was a SEAL for decades,and even though he never claimed to have been a VN Vet SEAL,I have never seen any record of him correcting anyone that made that claim for him. Yes,Venura WAS a SEAL,in the sense that the Navy did away with UDT teams and had no where else to assign him,but he never went through SEAL training (other than basic UDT training) and never deployed anywhere with a SEAL team. He could have,but didn't. He was asked to volunteer,and he refused. BTW,knocking Ventura down and then running away was one of the smartest things that Kyle could have done. Ventura might not have been a SEAL or a combat veteran,but there can be no doubt that when it came to hand to hand combat,he was about as tough as it gets. The man was big,incredibly strong,and wasn't afraid of being hurt. He could also make moves on you that you just don't see anywhere outside of a wrestling right,and aren't prepared for. Make no mistake about it,those fake pro-wrasslers are some of the toughest real world people out there running around. The best move for a unarmed typical bar fighter to make against one of them in real life would be to lead with your chin and hope he knocks you out with the first punch and then gets bored and walks away. If you are used to hitting somebody one time and hurting him and having him want to quit,you need to stay the hell away from those people. They are really and truly tough in every sense of the word. They can not only dish it out,they can also take it.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Too funny. There hasn't been a Roscoe post in over 12 years and you're still obsessing over him.
"The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts
Me neither. Legendary? The real legend was robertpaulsen. Freepers gathered at his feet to learn. So I've heard.
Not really,and especially not in urban areas. They always have spotters with them,and in urban areas their command always knows where they are located and are in constant communication with them. If their "hide" is discovered and they are attacked,command will send out a force to rescue them. BTW,I should confess right here that I am one of those people who see sniping as a necessary evil. I am glad there are other people who are willing to do the job,but I'm not one of them.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Early Jim Rob photo?
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Well, that goes without saying.
"The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts
Neither are the USMC Force Recon guys,or any other Special Operations people. Frankly,I have a hard time believing it is still necessary to remind people of this. My guess is this is a result of the old middle-grade prejudices that nerds and wusses had against guys that were bigger,stronger,and more aggressive than them,and scared them. They convinced themselves that "physical people" were dumber than "thinking people" like themselves because it made them feel better about themselves,and now they believe it to be true.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
The moment the Freepathon was invented. "The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts
Well said. I don't doubt that most here would agree with you, as I do.
Suddenly they aren't quite so interested in Kyle Well they deny it at first then they complain my link to the article does not work because they don't want to comment on Kyle the liar at best or worse Kyle the roadside or rooftop killer.
Not in the Navy. John Kerry wrote up his own Silver Star award,and had it approved by Navy brass that were nowhere around when it happened. IIRC,John McLunatic even got a SS while being held as a prisoner in Hanoi and doing no fighting at all.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
You're not very bright.
"The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts
And let's not pretend most scholars understand the first thing about being a warrior,never mind being one themselves.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
A scholar wouldn't make a mistake like that.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Well, that goes without saying. --- Palmdale Both robertpaulsen and roscoe are still only legends in their own minds. The rest of us laughed daily at your tag team efforts to pretend you were conservatives.
Wrong again! You not only ain't a warrior,you ain't much of a scholar either,bubba.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Me too. I always thought the WW II snipers were the most interesting. The Russians had some awesome snipers and plenty of German targets to hit. They made a significant impact. Of course, the Russians were resisting a genocidal Nazi invasion so you have a certain sympathy for Russkies defending their own country against an invader and so we generally overlook the Soviets' many other horrible shortcomings as a society and country.
I thought Ventura was supposed to have completed the basic UDT school but left the service about the time the SEALs were created as a program. But I haven't read about it in years. I always knew he was no SEAL, no matter what he said. OTOH, who is going to sue a pro wrestler type, where anything he says he'll just blame on his phony wrestler persona. You'd never manage to nail him on Stolen Valor charges and most of his SEAL claims were made well before that law passed Congress. And Ventura was close enough to being a SEAL that he apparently gets invited to some SEALish events, like that graduation where Kyle claimed (falsely) to have given Ventura a black eye.
I LOVED "We Were Soldiers Once,and Young",and "Blackhawk Down". I also liked "Saving Private Ryan" a lot.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
And let's not pretend most scholars understand the first thing about being a warrior,never mind being one themselves. Kyle was a high school graduate only. Let us not pretend SEALs are comic book super soldiers.
Yup. It also means it was a lucky shot for him because they aren't the most accurate weapons in the world,and the rear hatch on a Chinook isn't that big and it is moving. ....and that meant he was in a lot of danger to fire at so many SEALs like that. Not really. The SEALS inside were sitting on seats running the length of the fuselage,and they couldn't return fire. There is generally a machine gunner firing out the ramp door if bad guys are close,but he can't see and shoot at everything when the position is being swarmed.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Since Ventura was a alum of SEAL veteran association - you know open to seal members only - it is a safe bet he was considered a SEAL or a precursor to the SEALS and thus one of them. Notice this was written before the verdict was reached in Ventura's favor and it was secure in the belief that Kyle would beat Ventura. I have to hand it to Ventura for having the internal fortitude to launch a defamation case because those are almost impossible to win for a celebrity unless the defendant is caught in a provable lie. http://sofrep.com/36086/truth-jesse-venturas-navy-seal-status/ I’ve heard the speculation and gossip about Jesse Ventura’s Navy SEAL status and wanted to set the record straight. Jesse Ventura graduated with Basic Underwater Demolition Class 58 and, like it or not, he earned his status. Some say he’s a UDT (Underwater Demolition Team), and not a “SEAL,” but that’s bullshit. Others have seen the flaw in this analogy, and mentioned in private SEAL forums, “try telling that to a WWII UDT veteran who swam ashore before the landing craft on D-Day.” The UDT’s and SEALs are essentially one and the same. It’s why the UDT is still part of the training acronym BUD/S (Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL). Like it or not, Jesse Ventura is a Navy SEAL. He did the pushups and put up with the cold water, just like the rest of us. Many are rightfully upset that he took a personal issue between himself and the late Chris Kyle and is now going after his widow and children in a lawsuit that is currently in the trial phase. SOFREP has recently spoke with legal insiders who are trial side and they are putting the odds squarely in the court of the Kyle estate in their opinion, and that’s good news for everyone. Read more: http://sofrep.com/36086/truth-jesse-venturas-navy-seal- status/#ixzz3QVuOoZSh
Hence my later remarks on how there are great shots and there are lucky shots and then there are great lucky shots that almost defy belief.
I'd say he was close enough to being a SEAL. You do notice Ventura has definitely backed off all his SEAL claims since the Stolen Valor law passed. He used to hawk himself that way regularly.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest That would have been a Medal Of Honor winning shot if done by an American on an enemy tank.
#139. To: TooConservative (#138)
Maybe. My understanding is that a single shot from a sniper has to be awesomely skillful (very long distance) and the operator has to be in considerable danger while taking it. Getting medals for a single-shot is pretty rare.
#140. To: Pericles (#137)
#141. To: Pericles (#43)
so suddenly this movie comes out that is more fake than the book and this re-ignites the old debate about the Bush justified war in Iraq vs those who knew the was was BS and Kyle stands for the BS of it all.
#142. To: Pericles (#139)
#143. To: Pericles (#106)
I want to say again, I think Kyle was used by FOX owned Harper Collins books via professional ghostwriters to invent a war narrative where he is doing what FOX viewers love to see done in a war.
#144. To: redleghunter (#45)
I know you and many others here are staunchly opposed to our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
#145. To: TooConservative (#33)
After all, he's only been a member here at LF since yesterday.
#146. To: CZ82 (#145)
Who knows, maybe he is just old, foolish and uninformed.
#147. To: CZ82, TooConservative, otter, --- texaggie? (#145)
I think Otter is just caught in the crossfire. He's not on any particular side.
#148. To: TooConservative (#146)
Of course, he could be a retread type but that always becomes evident in short order.
#149. To: CZ82 (#148)
Ya think? And he'll accuse someone else of being a retread. LOL.
#150. To: tpaine (#147)
I can't remember the handle he used on FR, but I think it had something to do with Texas. -- Maybe 'texaggie'?
#151. To: CZ82 (#150)
#152. To: TooConservative (#149)
#153. To: CZ82 (#150)
Not Roscoe? Or maybe just another one in a long line of screen names?
#154. To: Palmdale (#151)
#155. To: GarySpFC (#58)
(Edited)
I can tell you Ventura has told some whoppers IMHO. He was never a SEAL, but went through UDT training, which really didn't compare to what SEALS experience.
#156. To: CZ82 (#154)
Legendary at what?
#157. To: Palmdale (#151)
"I don't think he's the legendary Roscoe."
#158. To: redleghunter (#60)
(Edited)
Sniper leaves alone with minimal ammunition and communications hours if not the day or night before to recon his site. He is alone, trying to blend in with locals and then he finds his spot sets up and waits...alone.
#159. To: Palmdale (#61)
#160. To: misterwhite (#157)
The real legend was robertpaulsen.
#161. To: redleghunter (#63)
SEALs are not stupid.
#162. To: sneakypete (#159)
#163. To: sneakypete (#158)
BTW,I should confess right here that I am one of those people who see sniping as a necessary evil. I am glad there are other people who are willing to do the job,but I'm not one of them.. ---- Sneakypete
#164. To: TooConservative (#142)
Notice how the Kyle fanbois seem to disappear as his lies about killing two guys at the Texas gas station come up and especially his bragging (lies) about running a sniper operation against civilians during Katrina?
#165. To: redleghunter (#72)
Gary as you know valor awards, especially the above ones, require a minimum of three eyewitness sworn statements.
#166. To: Pericles (#164)
they complain my link to the article does not work
#167. To: Pericles (#77)
Let's not pretend SEALS are warriors AND scholars.
#168. To: Pericles (#81)
Why should I apologize for confusing the name of a sports arena?
#169. To: Palmdale, misterwhite, Y'ALL (#160)
misterwhite (#157) --- The real legend was robertpaulsen.
#170. To: Pericles (#84)
Ventura was in the same military unit before they were given the cooler and more catchy SEAL's name.
#171. To: tpaine (#163)
BTW,I should confess right here that I am one of those people who see sniping as a necessary evil.
#172. To: sneakypete (#170)
#173. To: TooConservative (#103)
(Edited)
Combat veterans usually don't like the war movies
#174. To: sneakypete (#167)
Let's not pretend SEALS are warriors AND scholars.
#175. To: TooConservative (#110)
AFAIK, they still maintain it was brought down by a RPG (rocket-propelled grenade). That meant the guy who fired it had to be close ...
#176. To: TooConservative, sneakypete (#172)
(Edited)
I thought Ventura was supposed to have completed the basic UDT school but left the service about the time the SEALs were created as a program. But I haven't read about it in years. I always knew he was no SEAL, no matter what he said. OTOH, who is going to sue a pro wrestler type, where anything he says he'll just blame on his phony wrestler persona. You'd never manage to nail him on Stolen Valor charges and most of his SEAL claims were made well before that law passed Congress.
#177. To: sneakypete (#175)
t also means it was a lucky shot for him because they aren't the most accurate weapons in the world
#178. To: Pericles (#176)
Since Ventura was a alum of SEAL veteran association - you know open to seal members only - it is a safe bet he was considered a SEAL or a precursor to the SEALS and thus one of them.
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