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Title: Does time pass?
Source: MIT News
URL Source: http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2015/book-brad-skow-does-time-pass-0128
Published: Jan 28, 2015
Author: Peter Dizikes
Post Date: 2015-01-30 14:00:33 by cranky
Keywords: None
Views: 17202
Comments: 57

“If you walk into a cocktail party and say, ‘I don’t believe that time passes,’ everyone’s going to think you’re completely insane,” says Brad Skow, an associate professor of philosophy at MIT.

He would know: Skow himself doesn’t believe time passes, at least not in the way we often describe it, through metaphorical descriptions in which we say, as he notes, “that time flows like a river, or we move through time the way a ship sails on the sea.”

Skow doesn’t believe time is ever in motion like this. In the first place, he says, time should be regarded as a dimension of spacetime, as relativity theory holds — so it does not pass by us in some way, because spacetime doesn’t. Instead, time is part of the uniform larger fabric of the universe, not something moving around inside it.

Now in a new book, “Objective Becoming,” published by Oxford University Press, Skow details this view, which philosophers call the “block universe” theory of time.

In one sense, the block universe theory seems unthreatening to our intuitions: When Skow says time does not pass, he does not believe that nothing ever happens. Events occur, people age, and so on. “Things change,” he agrees.

However, Skow believes that events do not sail past us and vanish forever; they just exist in different parts of spacetime. (Some physics students who learn to draw diagrams of spacetime may find this view of time intuitive.) Still, Skow’s view of time does lead to him to offer some slightly more unusual-sounding conclusions.

For instance: We exist in a “temporally scattered” condition, as he writes in the new book.

“The block universe theory says you’re spread out in time, something like the way you’re spread out in space,” Skow says. “We’re not located at a single time.”

Spotlighting the alternatives

In “Objective Becoming,” Skow aims to convince readers that things could hardly be otherwise. To do so, he spends much of the book considering competing ideas about time — the ones that assume time does pass, or move by us in some way. “I was interested in seeing what kind of view of the universe you would have if you took these metaphors about the passage of time very, very seriously,” Skow says.

In the end, Skow finds these alternatives lacking, including one fairly popular view known as “presentism,” which holds that only events and objects in the present can be said to exist — and that Skow thinks defies the physics of spacetime.

Skow is more impressed by an alternative idea called the “moving spotlight” theory, which may allow that the past and future exist on a par with the present. However, the theory holds, only one moment at a time is absolutely present, and that moment keeps changing, as if a spotlight were moving over it. This is also consistent with relativity, Skow thinks — but it still treats the present as being too distinct, as if the present were cut from different cloth than the rest of the universal fabric.

“I think the theory is fantastic,” Skow writes of the moving spotlight idea. “That is, I think it is a fantasy. But I also have a tremendous amount of sympathy for it.” After all, the moving spotlight idea does address our sense that there must be something special about the present.

“The best argument for the moving spotlight theory focuses on the seemingly incredible nature of what the block universe theory is saying about our experience in time,” Skow adds.

Still, he says, that argument ultimately “rests on a big confusion about what the block universe theory is saying. Even the block universe theory agrees that … the only experiences I’m having are the ones I’m having now in this room.” The experiences you had a year ago or 10 years ago are still just as real, Skow asserts; they’re just “inaccessible” because you are now in a different part of spacetime.

That may take a chunk of, well, time to digest. But by treating the past, present, and future as materially identical, the theory is consistent with the laws of physics as we understand them. And at MIT, that doesn’t sound insane at all.

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#1. To: cranky (#0)

Does time pass?

To answer the question, we first have to define what time IS.

The answer depends entirely on the definition.

Time may not even EXIST. It doesn't exist unless we can precisely define it.

I've never seen a definition of "time" that wasn't simply circular.

The word "time" turns out to be like the word "existence": you can only define it in terms of itself.

(Try to define "existence", and you will swiftly find that you cannot do it without using the words "to be" or "being". But then try to define "to be", and you can't do it without using the word "exist".

You end up chasing your tail and realize that you CAN'T define either existence/being or time other than circularly.

Everything ultimately comes back to the definition of the verb "To be".

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-01-30   15:25:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Vicomte13 (#1)

It doesn't exist unless we can precisely define it.

That's just plain silly.

Time exists independent of humans or any human definition.

Even when there are no more humans, time will elapse.

There may not be anything to mark its passing but pass it will.

cranky  posted on  2015-01-30   16:43:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: cranky (#6)

That's just plain silly.

Time exists independent of humans or any human definition.

If we were talking about something tangible and visible, like matter, or energy, or even space, this would be very easy to assert.

Time, however, is not tangible. It doesn't move anything. It can't be measured.

We're not "measuring time" when we watch a spring unwind or a beat cycle. We're counting things out. It is we, in our minds, who view what is happening TO and WITH a concrete object: a spring, or an energy wave-form, as indicative of something else invisible that is "moving" unseen.

With "time" we are dealing with a concept that we made up to describe something that we think we see.

Our heart beats, and our bodies grow and then weaken and die. These things are so, physical realities. But to describe these physical realities, we create an entity to describe the "force", or intangible "thing" that is "moving".

Ockham's Razor - the original one - was that entities should not be multiplied needlessly. The idea of "time" certainly SEEMS to describe something, some pressure that moves things forward in sequence. Certainly it is a useful variable in algebraic calculations. But that doesn't mean that it actually exists.

After all, the square root of -4 is 2i, but "i" is imaginary. It is useful algebraically, to be sure, but it doesn't represent anything that actually EXISTS in the real world.

Time seems to exist, but it cannot be shown to. Sequentialism exists. That we can see and experience. And when sequential things are placed side by side, they move relatively fast or slow compared one to the other. That does not mean that there is a supreme factor, "time", existing as a real THING, ethereally pushing things along. Perhaps there is nothing there, and "time" is like "i", an imaginary number, measuring an imaginary "thing", that doesn't exist at all other than as a term in an algebraic expression.

Algebra is not reality. It merely models reality. "i" doesn't really exist. And perhaps "t" doesn't either. It's a model for sequentialism, a useful fiction, but not a separate "thing".

And for that matter so may "space" be. We use physical yardsticks to measure distance between objects. We call the distance "something". But really, the distance is literally nothing.

Something can be DONE with this nothing, though: you can fill it up. So it exists in physical reality, if only as "zero".

But time may be like "the ether", something that seemed so logical, but that apparently doesn't really exist at all.

Things move sequentially, and because of entropy most reactions and processes are one way. A plant cannot "ungrow", not because there's an "arrow of time" nudging it along, but because once it grows it actually IS something: matter and energy bound in space. And those things cannot simply dematerialize. There isn't a "backwards".

What I am writing is not "silly". It's not overthinking either.

I'm making a legitimate point. Just because people BELIEVE something exists and insist it does, doesn't mean it actually DOES. Just because "i" is algebraically useful doesn't mean that it's actually REAL. "i" is imaginary. And maybe so is "t".

"T" may merely be a mathematical McGuffin that lets us assign a value, v, to the relationship between two things.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-01-30   17:43:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Vicomte13 (#8)

Ockham's Razor - the original one

Not the compromised second draft

Biff Tannen  posted on  2015-01-31   7:26:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Biff Tannen (#29)

Well, you know "The simplest explanation that fits the facts is the best" is a good way to look at things, and it certainly derives from "don't multiply entities needlessly", but the thing that Ockham's original really gets across is that the entitles that are multiplied are not real things. Which is my point here.

Electromagnetism, strong and weak force are real things, effects of particles doing thus and so.

But time, like pi, may just be mathematical abstracts, relationships between real things, but not actual things in an of themselves.

A and B are blocks. There's a gap between them. One can measure that gap using different yardsticks. Each yardstick is a physical thing, and the arbitrary division with tick marks is visible and shows a relationship. But while the yardstick is a real thing, as are the blocks, the "distance" between the blocks is a relationship. In that case, you can actually DO something with the empty space: you can fill it up. So, the space is real, even though it is literally nothing. The yardstick is real. But the notion of "distance" is just an idea, a relationship. Space is an entity, but distance is not an entity. It's a measurement of an entity.

The question is whether or not time is an entity, a thing that CAUSES things, or whether it's just an arbitrary set of tick marks placed on a cycle, that shows the relationship of cycles to cycles.

People speak casually of time as though it WERE an entity. I am taking the opposite position: that time is NOT an entity, just a relationship. The cycling things are real, but time only exists in our heads.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-01-31   8:22:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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