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Title: Saudi Imam: Columbus Sailed to America to Kill all the Muslims
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Front Page Mag
URL Source: http://www.frontpagemag.com/2015/dg ... -muslims/#.VMp8Gev5SS4.twitter
Published: Jan 30, 2015
Author: Daniel Greenfield
Post Date: 2015-01-30 12:49:58 by redleghunter
Ping List: *Religious History and Issues* Subscribe to *Religious History and Issues*
Keywords: None
Views: 11999
Comments: 28
Islamic history is a pretty unique thing. It’s the story of how everyone hates and conspires against Muslims. Saudi Arabia is a totalitarian state. If the authorities found his views unacceptable, he wouldn’t have been able to preach them. This is mainstream stuff. Following are excerpts from a Friday sermon given by Imam Issa Assiri of the Sa’eed bin Jubair Mosque in Jedda, Saudi Arabia: "Dear believers, some notions require correction. For example, what we learned in school about the discovery of America is a lie. According to this story, the Spaniards loved spices, and since there was a shortage of spices in Europe and the price was high, they decided to send a sailor called Columbus westwards, so he would reach India and bring back spices. Only he did not get to India. Instead, he reached a land inhabited by redskins, whom he named “Red Indians.” Some time later, another sailor, called Amerigo, reached the same place. This is why America is called America – after that sailor – as if he discovered it. End of story – a fabrication and a lie, which is as far removed from the truth as possible. What is the truth that they do not want us to know? All that I have just told you is pure nonsense. The truth is that Columbus knew about the “new world” even before he set sail. He also knew that there were Muslims there. He received a personal commission to sail to America from a Crusader queen who hated Islam and the Muslims. She was one of the most prominent Crusader figures in history and she was called Isabella. She harbored deep hatred for Islam. She signed with Muhammad “the Little” the last Muslim king of Andalusia, an agreement in Granada that ended the Muslim presence in Andalusia. That was before this hateful Crusader turned to the American continent, in order to fight the Muslims there. The Muslims were there before Columbus and all the others. While the Imam might seem insane, he’s actually promoting a revisionist form of Islamic Supremacism in which the American Indians and the Australian Aborigines were really Muslims. So was everyone. Which is why they claim that Muslim converts revert to Islam. This allows them to claim that Judaism and Christianity perverted Islam. Conveniently this also allows them to lay claim to America. Because it’s all about Koran and conquest in the end. And naturally he throws in support for Islamic terrorism and killing Christians and Jews.
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#1. To: redleghunter (#0)
But if Isreal made claim to the South West, they would have grounds for the claim: The Los Lunas Inscription America's ancient Indian's called it the "Cliff of the Strange Writings". It has been named Phoenician Rock or the Commandment Stone. It is called today Inscription rock. Located west of Los Lunas, New Mexico at the base of Mystery Mountain (also called Hidden Mountain) this rock has been raising some eyebrows. The strange chiseled characters on the volcanic basalt rock were undecipherable by America's early European settlers and to the "native" Indians. (Hence, the mountain's name - Mystery). The local residents had been made aware, by the Indians, of the unusual inscription as early as the year 1800. Why is this rock causing such excitement? The stone preserves an abbreviated form of the Ten Commandments as written in Exodus 20, which is very exciting, but what makes this stone an enigma is the fact that the writing is clearly semitic in origin. The ancient Hebrew inscriptions were once thought to be a combination of Greek, Hebrew and Phoenician characters but now are clearly seen as a form of Hebrew writing dating to approximately 1000 B.C.! The Greeks "borrowed" from the Phonetic alphabet so the characters would be familiar. The Hebrews and the Phoenicians were neighbors which, in their trading environment, shared the same language and alphabet. The style of the characters is strikingly similar, almost identical, to that used on the Moabite Stone in the days of the Israelite kings Omri and Ahab. The Moab stone was engraved by captive Israelites for the Moabite king, Mescha, as per its own inscription. After examining the Los lunas site geologist, George Morehouse, estimated the placement of this Decalogue inscription up to 3000 years ago, which would, again, date it around 1000 B.C. Just how were historians to explain how a seventy ton boulder with Hebrew inscription appeared on this mountain landscape in North America around 1000 B.C.? Over two thousand years before Columbus "discovered" America there were people of semitic origin in New Mexico worshipping the God of Israel. How can this possibly be reconciled with known history? It is seemingly apparent that the financial backing to launch a Hebrew-Phoenician voyage of world exploration could have readily occurred during the reign of King Solomon of Israel. Solomon worshipped the true God of Israel and had the means to fund explorative voyages to other lands. With Solomon's main port being located on the Red Sea it would be difficult to explain how his fleet would have entered America through the Atlantic drainage. ( Reference note:1Kings 9:26 And king Solomon made a navy of ships in Eziongeber, which is beside Eloth, on the shore of the Red sea, in the land of Edom.27 And Hiram sent in the navy his servants, shipmen that had knowledge of the sea, with the servants of Solomon.) Tarshish , however, had access to the Atlantic. The reign of Solomon was enveloping the entire world. Israel's close neighbor, Phonecia, and their expert navigators were working with the servants of Solomon from both countries ports. The ships of Tarshish sailed extremely long voyages to bring back all kinds of raw materials and items (copper & other ores, flora & fauna samples, "exotic" animals, etc.). ( Reference note:2Ch 9:21 For the king's ships went to Tarshish with the servants of Huram: every three years once came the ships of Tarshish bringing gold, and silver, ivory, and apes, and peacocks.) It would help explain the need of three year journeys if the seamen had to cross the ocean to come to these far off isles in America. The fact that the trading ships of Phoenicia did have docks in ancient America can be proved from inscriptions they left behind. ( See Dr. Barry Fell's book America B.C. and also reading Steven M. Collins The "Lost" Ten Tribes of Israel...Found! is highly recommended) The Los Lunas site is located along the Puerco River which is tributary of the Rio Grande River. The Rio Grande is definitely in the Atlantic drainage. It would have been entirely possible for the Hebrew-Phonecian sailors to access the area of the stone. We must realize that our history was written by the Greeks (and Romans) and is told entirely from their self-glorifying viewpoint which sometimes tends to omit other nations contributions to the world. Columbus didn't discover America. How is it that there were people (some of semitic features) already living in America for centuries before Columbus? Ancient colonists and prospectors? Why is it that some of the words and alphabet characters of these ancients also resemble Hebrew or Ibunic-Phoenician? How is it that some of the same pagan gods and symbols were worshipped on both ends of the earth simultaneously? And is there any other explanation why the commandments of the God of Israel would be written in the middle of the North American continent in Hebrew characters? The inscription has been translated by the Epigraphic Society as follows: I (am) Jehovah [the Eternal] Eloah [your God] who brought you out of the land of Mitsrayim [Mizraim or the two Egypts] out of the house of bondages. You shall not have other [foreign] gods in place of (me). You shall not make for yourself molded (or carved) idols [graven images]. You shall not lift up your voice to connect the name of Jehovah in hate. Remember you (the) Sabbath to make it holy. Honor your father and your mother to make long your existence upon the land which Jehovah Eloah [the Eternal your God] gave to you. You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery (or idolatry). You shall not steal (or deceive). You shall not bear witness against your neighbor, testimony for a bribe. You shall not covet (the) wife of your neighbor and all which belongs to your neighbor. The Los Lunas Commandment Stone is one of several proofs that exist in America that the ancients of Israel, including both the worshippers of the false gods such as Baal and of the True Eternal God, walked on this continent long before Columbus or any of the 14th century European explorers. It is also another proof that biblical history is accurate. In the past, when a "new" world kingdom came into power they had the option of re-writing how their history and the history of those in subjection to them would be remembered. It was not uncommon to strike out the good things acheived by a former power that was now in subjection or exile. Or even to ascribe the glory of the former powers conquests to themselves. The bible, and the history of Israel that it contains, is refreshingly honest in its history of battles won and lost. It does not cover up Israel's mistakes or captivities. God's word is truth. History's word is questionable. It is obvious that the writers of world history knew of these ancient travellers but neglected to tell the story of history from a neutral standpoint. Reality to each of us is what we are taught. Truth is what is absolute, beyond the perception of men and their "reality". History has some explaining to do. This is a witness of our faith as in Joshua 24:27 : And Joshua said unto all the people, Behold, this stone shall be a witness unto us; for it hath heard all the words of the LORD which he spake unto us: it shall be therefore a witness unto you, lest ye deny your God.
what makes this even less plausible is that the Indians of the SW believe in One God, the Great Spirit, not the moon god which is what islam is founded on.
He must have been successful. After all - have you ever heard of any Muslims living in the Americas in the late 1400s?
LOL
"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools " (Romans 1:21-22)
Another God damned idiot who thinks he's a victim heard from.
That stone just happened to be discovered by Frank Hibben, long suspected of producing archaeological frauds. Archaeology had very bad problems with fraud prior to the last 40 years. Lots of people made fraudulent artifacts, sometimes with the intent to create a tourist attraction or to be able to sell it to a museum or to a circus. As the links indicate, these frauds have been a part of American history since colonial times, with Cotton Mather himself writing about the Dighton Rock in 1690. There is a certain American longing for a storied past that reaches back to the Stone Age in the Americas. Unfortunately, very little exists so fraud artists make some up to satisfy that curiosity and hunger for ancient "stuff" in the Americas. The Mormon religion had a substantial component of phony ancient tribes here in the Americas who were supposedly visited by Jesus after His resurrection. What I find most interesting is how enduring the appeal of ancient "stuff" is over the centuries to a substantial slice of the American public. In Europe and Asia, you have a lot more artifacts and impressive sites going back to the stone age. In the Americas, you have the Aztecs and the Mayans, relatively modern civilizations that didn't survive more than a few centuries before breaking down into barbarism, often as a result of creating a population to large to feed. But there are people who want to believe there is much more to it and there has been a certain public hunger for these supposedly ancient things for over 300 years.
bull dung, bull dung, bull dung.
The Indians in the area have said that it has been there as long as they, that tribe, have been there, that predates the 1800's by a long, long time, the shortest time it has been dated is 500 years, that predates all of the fraud claims.
Do they have any records to support this claim or is it just a local tourist attraction to them? I don't believe in "Mormon archaeology", not even when it's peddled by non-Mormons.
That's the amazing thing, not only is it not a tourist attraction, it is literally a secret. When my wife and I went looking for it, all of the locals we asked had never heard of it. You would think there would be a huge push to get Israeli and Jewish tourist from every where to come and see it. Not so, when I emailed the major, he said he didn't know but referred me to the librarian, who had heard of it and knew there was a fee, imposed by the state, to go see it, but was no where as helpful in finding it as the man at the private dumb near the gate, on private property, that one has to go thru to get to it. On the top of the mount, above the ten commandments is another large outcropping with one word on it "Yahweh". No, this is no hoax, for the proof is how hard the secular world is trying to both ignore it and come up with hoax stories about it, but the fact remains that one of the most highly regarded guys, who ages things by rain fall, said this was 3,000 years old. Back to the very time of King Solomon, who sent out ships that three years to return. (1 Kings 10:23).
I'd heard of it as well as most of the other hoaxes I'd listed. Why do you suppose that Jews are so profoundly uninterested in these artifacts when they are obviously interested in every other Jewish artifact and site around the world? There is a reason: they consider it a hoax. From Hibbens' wiki page: In addition: "However, Hibben's testimony is tainted by charges that in at least two separate incidents, he fabricated some or all of his archaeological data to support his pre-Clovis migration theory." In other words, his most major "discoveries" are considered abject frauds. In addition, Hibbens' dating technique is extremely flawed even under ideal conditions. However this artifact had been repeatedly cleaned by its admirers to keep the incriptions look as clear as possible. But that cleaning also removed the desert patina (sun-baked dust and pollen on the surface) by which Hibbens attempted to date the object. No one, and I mean no one, takes these dating claims seriously. And what is the connection with the Clovis sites and the Los Lunas stone? There was a certain fringe movement in science for pre-Clovis civilization of the Americas from the late nineteenth through the mid-twentieth centuries. Hibeens was part of it. So was Barry Fell ("1917-1994) was a professor of invertebrate zoology at the Harvard Museum of Comparative Zoology. While his primary professional research included starfish and sea urchins, Fell is most well known for his controversial work in New World epigraphy, arguing that various inscriptions in the Americas are best explained by extensive pre-Columbian contact with Old World civilizations. His writings on epigraphy and archaeology are generally rejected by those mainstream scholars who have considered them.) One of Fell's best-known associates in archaeoquackery was an obscure geologist George E. Morehouse who was the source of estimates from 500-2000 years old. Even he admitted the patina-dating was worthless due to the scrubbings. In addition, I recall reading of Los Lunas that the Mormon Batallion rode right past the site when traveling to fight in the Spanish-American War. Hence my mention of Mormon archaeology. The timeline and the motives for forgery are quite consistent, given Mormon theology. More reading on Mormons and Los Lunas at ex-mormon.org.
Maybe I jumped the gun on blaming the Mormons. No, I do not take Los Lunas seriously.
If you want to consider it a hoax, well that is certainly your right, but don't waste your time trying to convince me, as far as I am concerned the Bible is God's word and as long as 1 Kings 10:23 is there I will remain convinced of the legitimacy of the Los Lunas Ten Commandment stone's legitimacy.
One of the tenets of Mormonism is that they can lie if it furthers mormonism.
Muslims can. I've never read the same about Mormons.
There are a lot of places the ancient Israelites could have gone on a three-year journey. But imagine whatever you like since that seems to float your boat. It does confirm to me that the Old Testament continues to be a huge source of wrongheaded thinking and false doctrines among Christians, just as it has always been from the time of Jesus. I constantly find Christians pinning daft beliefs on their misuse of the Old Testament. There are a certain amount of itching ears that become evident.
I agree with all you wrote on the faked archeology and also I may add the Jews did not go around carving stuff into walls or the Holy land would be filled with such carvings. I do think there were accidental voyages to the Americas and maybe purposful ones during the bronze age when explorers had a financial incentive to find new sources of rare tin - but was forgotten of after and if rememembered it was in distorted legend.
Well, they did leave a few. As well as carved foundation stones and such. The prohibition on graven images was very strictly applied to anything involving worship. Not to everyday items.
The prohibition on graven images was very strictly applied to anything involving worship. Not to everyday items. I meant in cases where there are 10 commandments and whole paragraphs carved into the side of the walls - like they saw that in the Chuck Heston movie and copied it rather sloppily. I used to be in deep into the pre Columbian contact lore - I gave it a shot - compared it to mainstream archeology and pretty much discounted 90% of pre Columbian European and Phoenician/Jewish contacts.
There was a lot of pre-Columbian fascination tied up with the Clovis sites, a trend that started after the Civil War and endured at the fringes through the Fifties. And in popular lore since then. That doesn't mean you can cite much evidence or find many experts that take these supposed artifacts seriously. And then there is the huge record of exposed archaeology frauds as well as amateur frauds created to make a tourist attraction or to be sold to a circus sideshow for a big price. And all that did happen. It should cause us to take all these claims with a grain of salt and to demand evidence. Not just believe what we would like to believe about them, however farfetched the claims are. And we know that this fascination with phony ancient Hebrew writings in the Americas goes back to Cotton Mather in 1690, the leading Puritan preacher of his day. Bigger than Billy Graham ever was in the modern era. So this grasping at phony and farfetched relics is certainly nothing new. Well, I discussed much of that earlier and shouldn't repeat myself...
I agree with all you said but still watch that History channel show on ancient Europeans in America! LOL!
I'm worse than that. I have a secret TV vice. I sometimes watch those awful Ancient Aliens shows just to see all the great archeological sites. I really like the Stone Age and neolithic stuff, the Mayan and Aztec stuff. A lot of it, like the Mayan cities just discovered over the last 20 years and still kept from the public for fear of looters, are stuff you don't see elsewhere. How I wish they would just produce some straight history shows without all the weirdos yapping about ancient aliens. At least I can tivo past the wacko "experts" they have. Ever seen this nutjob? LOL
I watch it too - I watch a lot of alternate history and alternate science stuff. There is an inkling to that stuff for ancient aliens - like why does God need a chariot? Of course for the sake of the TV show they take it too far and attribute everything to ancient aliens. There is this journalist turned alternate historian Graham Hancock who posits that there was an ancient civilization that was wiped out during the last ice age.
Too bad he didn't succeed in doing so.
One or more. Or a group of artisans who moved from one ancient empire to another, much as we have seen Jews relocate repeatedly to friendly countries over the last few thousand years. If they can do it, why couldn't some other ancient people move from place to place, bringing their skills and knowledge as artisans. They had secrets to building their massive monuments and huge stone structures. We just don't know how they accomplished it. You have to consider how much was obliterated or buried in the last ice age. And how much more may have been submerged. I think the next few centuries will give us tools to thoroughly explore and map the earth and we will have some real surprises.
I think the next few centuries will give us tools to thoroughly explore and map the earth and we will have some real surprises. I am guessing the ice age coasts must have had a more advanced culture if not an outright civilization than the hard to survive hinterland. When the ice age ended and the seas rose that obliterated those "cities" - if they were cities. I don't think these "Atlantis" like cities were more advanced than stone age level themselves - but they probably produced more refined stone tools and knowledge beyond inland stone age man. Maybe it did not take a lot to impress stone age man from the hinterland. Maybe a boat and the ability to predict eclipses or navigate by the stars or maybe cure illness or build permanent dwellings was very awe inspiring to the hinterland cave men. It could be that the ice age coastals - let's call them "Atlantis" raided inland for slaves. That would have added the fear and awe factor. In fact, the myth of Atlantis is that they were trying to conquer Athens and were defeated before the island sunk. Athens predates the arrival of the proto-Greeks. The proto-Greeks settled with the aboriginals and carried on a few of their aboriginal myths. Just speculation on my part.
It seems obvious. In many places around the world, the seas rose and advanced a quarter-mile or further inland. In some places where you have a large flood plain, there would be very large areas that would be flooded as the seas rose, like with lots of ideal sites for fishing villages and trade routes anywhere south of the southern extent of the ice mass over the northern hemisphere. Fishermen have always lived near their work. And when the glaciers came from the north, very little trace of man remained there if it wasn't in caves. The glaciers scrub the ground beneath them.
#2. To: redleghunter (#0)
While the Imam might seem insane, he’s actually promoting a revisionist form of Islamic Supremacism in which the American Indians and the Australian Aborigines were really Muslims.
#3. To: redleghunter (#0)
Columbus Sailed to America to Kill all the Muslims
#4. To: Rufus T Firefly (#3)
#5. To: redleghunter (#0)
Saudi Imam: Columbus Sailed to America to Kill all the Muslims
#6. To: BobCeleste (#1)
The Los Lunas Inscription
#7. To: BobCeleste, redleghunter (#1)
The Los Lunas Decalogue Stone is often grouped with the Kensington Runestone, Dighton Rock, and the Newport Tower as examples of American landmarks with disputed provenances. Other disputed American Hebrew inscriptions include the Smithsonian Institution's Bat Creek Inscription and the Newark Ohio Decalogue Stone, Keystone, and Johnson-Bradner Stone.
#8. To: misterwhite (#6)
#9. To: TooConservative (#7)
#10. To: BobCeleste (#9)
The Indians in the area have said that it has been there as long as they, that tribe, have been there, that predates the 1800's by a long, long time, the shortest time it has been dated is 500 years, that predates all of the fraud claims.
#11. To: TooConservative (#10)
Do they have any records to support this claim or is it just a local tourist attraction to them?
#12. To: BobCeleste (#11)
That's the amazing thing, not only is it not a tourist attraction, it is literally a secret. When my wife and I went looking for it, all of the locals we asked had never heard of it.
No, this is no hoax, for the proof is how hard the secular world is trying to both ignore it and come up with hoax stories about it, but the fact remains that one of the most highly regarded guys, who ages things by rain fall, said this was 3,000 years old. Back to the very time of King Solomon, who sent out ships that three years to return. (1 Kings 10:23).
"The primary source of the controversies was Hibben's claim to have found a deposit with pre-Clovis artifacts (including projectile points, which he termed "Sandia points") in Sandia Cave (in the Sandia Mountains near Albuquerque, New Mexico). Hibben believed the layers to be about 25,000 years old, much older than the Paleo-Indian cultures previously documented in the U.S. Southwest. The layers also included the bones of Pleistocene species such as camels, mastodons, and horses."
#13. To: BobCeleste (#11)
How fake does it have to be for Mormon archaeologists to reject it? Nevertheless, the Mormons examined the stone in the 1950’s to see if it was theirs. They sent out the Archaeological Society of Brigham Young University from Provo, Utah. The Mormon team critically examined the stone and in 1954 published an article which concluded the inscription was quite recent because of the lack of patina in the letters. Consequently, they dismissed it altogether. I had one person email me who was interested in the Los Lunas Mystery Stone. He stated that he was Mormon & had been so all of his life. He had never heard of the stone within the Mormon community and was intrigued by those claiming that it was of Mormon influence. He personally visited the site & concluded that this indeed had nothing to do with the Mormons- independently verifying the 1950’s expedition!
#14. To: TooConservative (#12)
#15. To: TooConservative (#13)
#16. To: BobCeleste (#15)
One of the tenets of Mormonism is that they can lie if it furthers mormonism.
#17. To: BobCeleste (#14)
as long as 1 Kings 10:23 is there
#18. To: TooConservative, BobCeleste, redleghunter (#7)
(Edited)
#19. To: Pericles (#18)
I agree with all you wrote on the faked archeology and also I may add the Jews did not go around carving stuff into walls or the Holy land would be filled with such carvings.
#20. To: TooConservative (#19)
(Edited)
Well, they did leave a few. As well as carved foundation stones and such.
#21. To: Pericles (#20)
I used to be in deep into the pre Columbian contact lore - I gave it a shot - compared it to mainstream archeology and pretty much discounted 90% of pre Columbian European and Phoenician/Jewish contacts.
#22. To: TooConservative (#21)
#23. To: Pericles (#22)
I agree with all you said but still watch that History channel show on ancient Europeans in America! LOL!
#24. To: TooConservative (#23)
#25. To: redleghunter (#0)
Saudi Imam: Columbus Sailed to America to Kill all the Muslims
#26. To: Pericles (#24)
There is this journalist turned alternate historian Graham Hancock who posits that there was an ancient civilization that was wiped out during the last ice age.
#27. To: TooConservative (#26)
You have to consider how much was obliterated or buried in the last ice age. And how much more may have been submerged.
#28. To: Pericles (#27)
When the ice age ended and the seas rose that obliterated those "cities" - if they were cities.
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