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Title: Cops Shutdown High School Kids Trying to Earn Money by Shoveling Snow
Source:
Free Thought Project
URL Source: http://thefreethoughtproject.com/co ... ids-earn-money-shoveling-snow/
Published: Jan 28, 2015
Author: Matt Agorist
Post Date: 2015-01-29 03:10:32 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 23301
Comments: 77
In America, “Land of Opportunity,” you are free to pursue your dreams of financial freedom, provided you have filled out the proper form and been extorted by the proper bureaucrat. Two teenage boys from Bridgewater, New Jersey are getting a hard does of this statism after their pursuance of financial freedom landed them in hot water with the fuzz. Earlier this week, Matt Molinari and his friend Eric Schnepf, both seniors in High School, were going door-to-door advertising their snow shoveling services in advance of the storm. School was out, and instead of sitting inside and playing XBOX, these two young entrepreneurs felt the fire of enterprise and decided to turn their down time into an actual dime. However, Molinari and Schnepf apparently didn’t realize that in order to make a dime you have to pay a quarter — to the state. When the two boys were out trying to rustle up some business during what they saw as an opportunity, along came the uniformed agents of the state, to put this unapproved business venture out to pasture. “We weren’t looking to break the law. We just didn’t know the law,” Molinari tells Jim Smith on his WCBS 880 radio show. The cops then gave these two kids a lesson in statist economics, which consequently ended their high school snow shoveling business. “They need a permit, unpermitted solicitation is not allowed,” Molinari said, recalling what the police told them. In this particular county, anyone selling goods and services door to door must apply for a license that can cost as much as $450 for permission that is valid for only 180 days; after all freedom ain’t free. “We don’t make the laws but we have to uphold them,” Police Chief Michael Jannone said Tuesday, in true statist fashion, after reading some of the online comments about the incident. The teens’ story quickly started gaining traction in a local Bound Brook Facebook group after a resident witnessed police shaking down Schnepf after going to his door. “Are you kidding me? Our generation does nothing but complain about his generation being lazy and not working for their money,” he wrote on Bound Brook NJ Events‘ page. “Here’s a couple kids who take the time to print up flyers, walk door to door in the snow, and then shovel snow for some spending money. And someone calls the cops and they’re told to stop?” The two teens have, rightfully so, been met with loads of support. After being questioned by reporters and seeing the backlash against them, the Bound Brook police chief did some back peddling and told MyCentralJersey.com they are not cracking down on kids shoveling, but rather that it was a state of emergency and should not have been out. Unfortunately the young entrepreneurial spirit is often stomped into a sad puddle in this land of the ostensibly free. Similar bans around the country have nixed the learning stages of free enterprise by putting an end to practices such as lemonade stands and selling Girl Scouts cookies. In October of 2013, The Free Thought Project reported on the incident in Washington DC in which dozens of cops were dispatched, not because there were armed gunman threatening to kill hostages, or because of a bomb threat, or riot, but because a group of rowdy kids would dare sell lemonade, without a permit.
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#38. To: Deckard (#36)
(Edited)
That’s simply not true. My agenda is to pursue truth. I do so by pointing out the inconsistencies in the articles you post. This last one you posted was a classic example of yellow journalism. We had a chance to see two different stories about the same incident and examine them side by side. I know that some cops are bad and do bad things. When they do, I want them disciplined or charged if the violated the law. No one should ever violate the Constitution.
The law doesn't discriminate among these various sales pitches. Either everyone pitches or no one pitches on a doorstep.
And steal our Xboxen! : )
All protected political speech. Our society may tolerate all kinds of speech in the public square. But a man's home is his castle and you don't just get to make a sales pitch in his house and be protected by the First Amendment.
I had to look that up...
There can be no law against it. The homeowner merely has to put a no trespassing sign or a no soliciting sign. To communicate to the person said homeowners desire to not be bothered. Some people don't mind. IF that is the case then sending unsolicited mail by the postman would also be unlawful.
In public, yes. Not in their homes and private property. Protected speech ends at your property line.
nolu loves the legal stuff. Maybe he wants to weigh in.
The person can put up a sign. But it isn't against the law to walk across the lawn to ask a question. Once the person makes a sales pitch or starts talking. The homeowner can tell them to leave. It isn't default you can't talk to someone because they live on private property. Remember there can constitutionally be "no law".
thanks for the password fix, stone
You have an elevated notion about the absolutism of free speech. It isn't as absolute as you like to think it is. The law often tolerates regulation at the state or local level when it would forbid the same activity by the feds. States and local government have a certain leeway in regulating speech. You may recall how the pols in both parties have taken to "designated protest areas" for major events like political conventions. So the protesters end up a mile from the convention inside a chain link fence, protesting all they want. And it is tolerated by the courts.
AKA Stone --- The person can put up a sign. But it isn't against the law to walk across the lawn to ask a question. Once the person makes a sales pitch or starts talking. The homeowner can tell them to leave. Yep, without signs or fencing, the property owners in effect give implied consent to enter their property for non criminal purposes. -- See below --- Trespassing is a legal term that can refer to a wide variety of offenses against a person or against property. Trespassing as it relates to real estate law means entering onto land without consent of the landowner. There are both criminal and civil trespass laws. Criminal trespass law is enforced by police, sheriffs, or park rangers. Civil trespass requires that the landowner initiate a private enforcement action in court to collect any damages for which the trespasser may be responsible (regardless of whether a crime has been committed). Intent and Knowledge Requirements Traditionally, for either type of trespass -- criminal or civil -- some level of intent is required. Thus, the trespasser must not simply unwittingly traverse another's land but must knowingly go onto the property without permission. Knowledge may be inferred when the owner tells the trespasser not to go on the land, when the land is fenced, or when a "no trespassing" sign is posted. A trespasser would probably not be prosecuted if the land was open, the trespasser's conduct did not substantially interfere with the owner's use of the property, and the trespasser left immediately on request. Express Consent The landowner may indicate -- verbally or in writing -- permission to enter onto the land. Implied Consent The existence of consent may be implied from the landowner's conduct, from custom, or from the circumstances. Consent may be implied if the landowner was unavailable to give consent, and immediate action is necessary to save a life or prevent a serious injury. - See more at: realestate.findlaw.com/land-use-laws/trespassing- basics.html#sthash.3AnkF3L8.dpuf
It isn't as absolute as you like to think it is No LAW. What does that mean. I'm sure some courts watered down the meeting. But think about what your view means. Under your view all girl scouts should be arrested if they come and try to sell you cookies. You like the Boy Scouts. Well they better not come a=k you to buy some popcorn because that is unlawful according to you. Jail to the boy scouts. Those fund raisers at your kids or great grand kids school. Arrest them all they come ask if you want to buy some candy or snacks. Those pesky charities that come to your home looking for a contribution to help the poor. Chains and shackles for them. Or handcuffs until they have their asses thrown in jail. No my friend. No means no. I think you would agree with me that if someone went to your house and wanted to sell you some crackers. Then you said no you're not interested. Then they should leave and would lawfully be required to leave. You have to tell them first with no trespassing or no soliciting. The government can't speak for everyone and just make it illegal. I don't see what is so complicated or unreasonable about what I said. I don't see anything unlawful or immoral about it either.
Would you agree that both State and Fed govts are limited by our Constitution? The key words are "tolerated by the courts". No such leeway should be tolerated in unconstitutionally regulating away our inalienable rights.
The states somewhat less so than the feds.
Bad law makes for bad cops. The citizens of Bridgewater, New Jersey, like all of New Jersey vote for fascism early and often. If they don't like the law, fire the legislators, but that's easier said than done since NJ and Democrats are synonymous. SOLICITOR Any person, whether a resident of the Township or not, who goes from house to house, from place to place or from street to street, traveling by foot, automotive vehicle or any other type of conveyance, soliciting, taking or attempting to take orders for the sale of merchandise or services of any kind for future performance or delivery, whether or not such individual has, carries or exposes for sale a sample of the merchandise or services, and whether or not he is collecting advance payments on such sales or orders, or who engages in any of the foregoing activities from a stationary location on any street or other public place. The word "solicitor" shall also include the word "canvasser."
Would you agree that both State and Fed govts are limited by our Constitution? That is the contention of many that claim states have such rights, whereas our Constitution clearly says otherwise in Section 1 of the 14th. Do you have any contrary proof?
You seem to wave our Constitution around as if it has any application in one's daily life, or in matters of state. I'd suggest it has been, and continues to be intentional ignored and doesn't pose as much as a speed bump to state, local and federal government. This practice dates back to Lincoln and in hit a zenith with the creation of the FED in 1913.
You seem to post as if our Constitution shouldn't have any such applications. Haven't you ever sworn an oath to protect and defend it? If not, why not? I'd suggest you seem to approve of this insanity. Why?
You confuse acceptance with approval. See Kubler-Ross and her five stages of grief. View it through the prism of reality rather than the long gone Spirit of 1776. Our constitution, and any adherence to it, are relics of days gone by. The fight ended with a whimper. That's reality.
You seem to post as if our Constitution shouldn't have any such applications. Haven't you ever sworn an oath to protect and defend it? If not, why not? I'd suggest you seem to approve of this insanity. Why? You're admitting you accept the ignoring of our Constitution. That's approval. You're whimpering that the fight is over. -- That's not reality, it's turning tail. And it's obvious you wouldn't swear an oath to honor our supreme law. Why are you here?
You're whimpering that the fight is over. -- That's not reality, it's turning tail. So where exactly is constitutional fight being waged. Congress? The Supreme Court? Your state? I submit - again - there is no fight. The American spirit rolled over and died after Gettysburg. And it's obvious you wouldn't swear an oath to honor our supreme law. Your reference to "our supreme law" is both sad and funny at the same time. Again, it has been nothing more than a museum piece for more than 150 years, if not longer.
Gatlin---you and the cops suck.
You're whimpering that the fight is over. -- That's not reality, it's turning tail. I've been posting articles about our fight for 18 years on this subject, written and published by some of the nation's greatest minds, in national publications. You must have your head in a sandpile. And it's obvious you wouldn't swear an oath to honor our supreme law. Sad comment, one that only shows you to be a lightweight in denial. Our greatest amendment, the 14th, has never been respected more than in the last few decades.
Sounds like you had occasion to meet & be assisted by good cops, twice! Cops are like any other group of people, there are good ones, and unfortunately, there are also bad ones! Hopefully the bad ones are weeded out quicker than the good ones leave!
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Question here: Who do you actually protect and serve? The Supreme Court has stated in their ruling see here http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=0 that cops do not have any Constitutional obligation to protect nor serve the John Q. Public. So I am to assume the the class of people that you actually protect and serve are: State and Federal public officials and dignataries, escorting the Queen of England and the Pope when they come into town, and the President of the United States.
Who do you actually protect and serve? I serve and protect no one, sock puppet....I have been fully retired sine 1975.
You will always be a cop regardless of whether you are retired or not. You could be sitting inside a donut shop having coffee and a croissant and witness someone about to commit a robbery. So you intervene maybe even having to use your sex pistol to run off the culprit. God help them.
I am no cop...if I were, I would be a great one.
There are some great cops but they are few and becoming a minority.
I have no firm statistical data I can use to agree or disagree with you. However, I can present strong evidence here and here showing severe shortages of police officers to come. The number of applicants to police academies is down more that 90 percent in some cities. I read here that police officers are desperately needed now in 10 U.S. locations. So my concern is not whether great cops are few and becoming a minority, it is more about: Cue the Police Anthem:
I enjoyed the movies, but I really enjoy the song by Bob Marley. I don't listen to the words as much as I listen to and like the rhythm beat of the stressed and unstressed passages. It is an upbeat melody.
Wonder if Gatlin or one of the other statists here was the busybody who turned the kids in. Teens Shoveling Snow? Without Licenses?? Quick, Call the Cops
You have my permission to ask me the question ... don't be shy. I would have told you it was a person in the neighborhood who saw one of the youngsters crossing yards at night with a hoodie on. Oh, but you already knew that ... you commented on it. How forgetful you have become ... hatred can warp a mind. I read thqt on the Inernet ...
[TooConservative #2] It isn't a constitutional right to make a sales pitch for your services on someone's front step. It brings to mind FNC's constant bitching over lemonade stands. They have at least one major snit every year over kids selling lemonade, often in high-traffic venues where all other food vendors have to be licensed and inspected. [A K A Stone #43] The homeowner merely has to put a no trespassing sign or a no soliciting sign. To communicate to the person said homeowners desire to not be bothered. Some people don't mind. [Too Conservative #45] I can't give an absolute answer. It is an active area of law. I think the kids might prevail on a legal challenge. The government would have the legal burden to defend its regulation. Commercial speech is regulated differently than ordinary speech. http://criminaljusticelinks.com/Door-to-Door%20Free%20Speech%20Restrictions.pdf [excerpt - emphasis added, fotnotes omitted] The Do’s and Don’ts of Regulating Commercial Door-to-Door Speech Under the First Amendment by Michael D. Bersani and Sara M. Cliffe In general, municipalities enjoy the power to regulate business activity in their communities, so long as the regulation bears a reasonable connection to the health, safety and welfare of the community, and otherwise comports with statutory and constitutional principles. Commercial door-to-door solicitation raises particular concerns for municipalities seeking to protect their residents. As a result, a “solicitor ordinance” is a common municipal enactment that prohibits solicitors from going door-to-door in residential neighborhoods without first obtaining a permit or license, or registering with the local police department. This article specifically addresses the limits of a municipality’s authority to regulate commercial door-to-door activities. [...] The Regulation of Door-to-Door Commercial Solicitation Since residential commercial solicitation occurs in the listener’s private realm, it raises additional interests that are not present in the public forum. Recently, in Watchtower Bible and Tract Soc. of New York, Inc. v. Village of Stratton, the Supreme Court held that an anti-solicitation ordinance reached too far by preventing both non-commercial and commercial “canvassers” from going on private property without a permit: “Had [the ordinance] been construed to apply only to commercial activities and the solicitation of funds, arguably the ordinance would have been tailored to the Village’s interest in protecting the privacy of its residents and preventing fraud.” However, the Court did not provide any guidance as to how far a commercial solicitation ordinance could go, or how well the asserted governmental interests would fare in the face of a constitutional challenge. In other words, the Court did not directly address the scope and intent of a municipality’s powers to regulate door-to-door commercial speech. Although the Supreme Court has not squarely addressed this issue, lower courts have done so. [...] Further, so long as residents remain able to post “no solicitation” signs, a municipal ban on solicitation from 5:00 to 9:00 pm is not necessary. However, a municipality may lawfully maintain a list of those residents who have expressed a desire to not receive solicitors, require solicitors to obtain the list, and prosecute those who fail to abide by it.
I wish I had a dollar for every disabled motirist I helped push out of traffic. Couldn't push them with the patrol car though, was against policy. I was always afraid I'd set the airbag off using the front push bar to push a disabled vehicle. I never "patted down" anyone unless I was going to arrest them or allow them inside my patrol car.... It was policy to pat-search all people being transported in the patrol car, whether they were in custody or just a. Courtesy ride. I'm glad you had a pleasant experience.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
IMHO, the biggest cause of poor attitude LEO's, is an increase of calls (caused by increased poverty) coupled with a reduced number of officers (due to budget cuts).... and exacerbated by an decrease of civilian appreciation. Not an increase in corruption... an increase in poor attitude
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Nice answer. In practice, the municipalities are likely to prevail because no one is going to hire a lawyer for a lemonade stand or for a couple of kids shoveling snow.
The manufacturers should be forced to include a way to disable airbags for 5-10 minutes, especially for LEO. People get hurt by these oversized American airbags all the time. I had an aunt whose front fender got hooked on a piece of steel used to hold a concrete parking bar in place. When she tried to back out, it set off the airbag. She nearly lost vision in her eye due to detached retina. I've known several other older people who got banged up pretty bad by an airbag going off in their faces in a low-speed accident. These airbags are too sensitive at present. The EUros are much smarter and use smaller and much cheaper airbags but insist on seat belts. The American solution is not to enforce seat belt laws and put these huge expensive airbags in vehicles because Americans can't be bothered to wear seat belts.
I've investigated accidents were the airbag has broke the wrist of more than one driver and a broken nose.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
to fit your agenda.
Your agenda is to blindly defend ALL cops, no mater how corrupt or sadistic they are.
If they violate the constitution, so what?
#39. To: Deckard (#5)
These were kids trying to earn a few bucks shoveling snow, not Jehovaah's Witnesses.
#40. To: Gatlin (#13)
And you should think of them as the thin blue line standing between us and the hordes of criminals trying to sell us snow shoveling services while actually waiting to rob us blind, rape our sisters and mothers, or murder us in our beds.
#41. To: A K A Stone (#19)
OR ABRIDGING THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
#42. To: TooConservative (#40)
Xboxen
#43. To: TooConservative (#41)
But a man's home is his castle and you don't just get to make a sales pitch in his house and be protected by the First Amendment.
#44. To: A K A Stone (#19)
A law requiring them to register in order to talk to people is clearly unconstitutional.
#45. To: A K A Stone, nolu chan (#43)
#46. To: TooConservative (#44)
Protected speech ends at your property line.
#47. To: A K A Stone (#46)
#48. To: A K A Stone (#46)
#49. To: A K A Stone (#46)
TooConservative ---- Protected speech ends at your property line.
#50. To: TooConservative (#48)
You have an elevated notion about the absolutism of free speech.
#51. To: TooConservative (#48)
You have an elevated notion about the absolutism of free speech. --- It isn't as absolute as you like to think it is. The law often tolerates regulation at the state or local level when it would forbid the same activity by the feds.
States and local government have a certain leeway in regulating speech. You may recall how the pols in both parties have taken to "designated protest areas" for major events like political conventions. So the protesters end up a mile from the convention inside a chain link fence, protesting all they want. And it is tolerated by the courts.
#52. To: tpaine (#51)
Would you agree that both State and Fed govts are limited by our Constitution?
#53. To: All (#0)
Hit me
#54. To: TooConservative (#52)
The states somewhat less so than the feds.
#55. To: tpaine (#54)
#56. To: Vinny (#55)
You seem to wave our Constitution around as if it has any application in one's daily life, or in matters of state.
I'd suggest it has been, and continues to be intentional ignored and doesn't pose as much as a speed bump to state, local and federal government. This practice dates back to Lincoln and in hit a zenith with the creation of the FED in 1913.
#57. To: tpaine (#56)
I'd suggest you seem to approve of this insanity. Why?
#58. To: Vinny, Y'ALL (#57)
I'd suggest it has been, and continues to be intentional ignored and doesn't pose as much as a speed bump to state, local and federal government. This practice dates back to Lincoln and in hit a zenith with the creation of the FED in 1913.
You confuse acceptance with approval.
Our constitution, and any adherence to it, are relics of days gone by. -- The fight ended with a whimper. --- That's reality.
#59. To: tpaine (#58)
#60. To: Gatlin (#3)
#61. To: Vinny, Y'ALL (#59)
So where exactly is constitutional fight being waged. Congress? The Supreme Court? Your state? I submit - again - there is no fight. The American spirit rolled over and died after Gettysburg.
Your reference to "our supreme law" is both sad and funny at the same time. Again, it has been nothing more than a museum piece for more than 150 years, if not longer.
#62. To: A K A Stone (#26)
#63. To: Gatlin (#34)
(Edited)
#64. To: goldilucky (#63)
Question here:
#65. To: Gatlin (#64)
#66. To: goldilucky, A K A Stone, GrandIsland (#65)
(Edited)
You will always be a cop...
#67. To: Gatlin (#66)
#68. To: goldilucky, GrandIsland (#67)
(Edited)
There are some great cops but they are few and becoming a minority.
What the bad boys gonna do when there are no cops to come for them.
#69. To: GrandIsland (#68)
"Bad Boys"
#70. To: TEA Party Reveler (#60)
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#71. To: Deckard (#70)
#72. To: TooConservative, A K A Stone, Deckard (#45)
High-density areas like NJ have these laws to stop bums from harassing homeowners. Otherwise, they can wander around pestering people any time they want.
There can be no law against it.
nolu loves the legal stuff. Maybe he wants to weigh in.
Sept/October 2005
#73. To: A K A Stone (#26)
#74. To: Gatlin (#68)
(Edited)
There are some great cops but they are few and becoming a minority.
#75. To: nolu chan, A K A Stone (#72)
I can't give an absolute answer. It is an active area of law. I think the kids might prevail on a legal challenge. The government would have the legal burden to defend its regulation. Commercial speech is regulated differently than ordinary speech.
#76. To: GrandIsland (#73)
I was always afraid I'd set the airbag off using the front push bar to push a disabled vehicle.
#77. To: TooConservative (#76)
She nearly lost vision in her eye due to detached retina. I've known several other older people who got banged up pretty bad by an airbag going off in their faces in a low-speed accident.
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