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Title: ‘Peak Oil’ Debunked, Again
Source: SOS
URL Source: http://www.wsj.com/articles/peak-oil-debunked-again-1417739810
Published: Jan 13, 2015
Author: WSJ
Post Date: 2015-01-13 19:35:51 by SOSO
Keywords: None
Views: 15789
Comments: 53

‘Peak Oil’ Debunked, Again

The world relearns that supply responds to necessity and price.

Dec. 4, 2014 7:36 p.m. ET

It has been 216 years since Thomas Malthus gave birth to the idea that mankind’s appetite for natural resources would outstrip nature’s capacity to supply them. There have since been regular warnings that the world is running out of soybeans, helium, chocolate, tunsgsten, you name it—and that population growth has become unsustainable. The warnings create a political or social panic for a while, only to be proved wrong.

The latest reckoning with reality is the end of the obsession with “peak oil,” which for years had serious people proclaiming that we were entering an era of permanent fossil fuels scarcity. It didn’t work out that way.

That’s a central lesson from this year’s dramatic fall in the price of oil, which reached $69.49 a barrel of Brent crude on Thursday from a June high of $112.12. As recently as early November, when oil hovered at $80, OPEC officials warned they would intervene to hold the price at $70. But Saudi officials conspicuously refused to support an output cut at last week’s OPEC meeting, and Saudi oil minister Ali al-Naimi has made clear that he’d be comfortable with lower prices.

The short-term Saudi calculation is to drive oil prices down to squeeze their geopolitical adversaries and higher-cost producers. That goes especially for their adversaries across the Persian Gulf in Iran, which depends on oil exports for over 40% of its revenues, and where the regime had designed its budget based on $100 oil.

The Saudis also hope to slow the explosive growth of U.S. production, which, thanks to the tapping of domestic shale resources through the combination of horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing, has risen to some nine million barrels a day from five million in 2008. By some estimates, the price of oil needs to be as high as $90 a barrel for oil extracted from “tight” deposits such as shale, though oil market research firm IHS believes most tight oil wells have a break-even cost of between $50 and $69 dollars a barrel.

But even if the Saudi move slows U.S. drilling, the International Energy Agency forecasts that U.S. production will still surpass Saudi Arabia’s output of 9.7 million barrels a day, and overtake Russia’s 10.3 million, perhaps sometime next year. This would make America the world’s largest oil producer, which it was from the dawn of the oil age through 1974. Thanks to the fracking boom, the U.S. surpassed Russia as the world’s largest natural-gas producer in 2013.

All this is a useful reminder, as IHS’s Daniel Yergin told us the other day, that “technology responds to need and to price.” It was the same story in the 1970s, when the world responded to OPEC’s embargoes by exploiting new resources in Alaska and the North Sea, and again in the 1980s and 1990s, when offshore drilling became technologically feasible and economically profitable at ever-greater depths. And expect more from where that came, as the frackers continue to figure out how to drive down costs, and if new shale deposits in places such as Mexico, Ukraine and Argentina start to be exploited.

Also worth remembering is how spectacularly wrong some recent predictions of doom turned out to be. This is shooting fish in a barrel, but here is Paul Krugman in December 2010, declaring that “peak oil has arrived.”

“What the commodity markets are telling us,” Mr. Krugman averred, “is that we’re living in a finite world, in which the rapid growth of emerging economies is placing pressure on limited supplies of raw materials, pushing up their prices. And America is, for the most part, just a bystander in this story.” Far from being a bystander, America has been the main oil-market innovator.

Such doomsaying is that much more embarrassing because warnings of peak oil are nearly as old as the oil industry. In his book “The Quest,” Mr. Yergin records that in 1885 the state geologist of Pennsylvania warned that “the amazing exhibition of oil” was “a temporary and vanishing phenomenon—one which young men will live to see come to its natural end.”

Given this 130-year record of predictive failure, why does the end-of-oil myth persist? Part of it is that peak oil is more wish than prediction—a desire to see the end of fossil fuels to serve a larger political agenda. It is also a way of scaring governments into pouring money into alternative energy sources that can’t compete with oil and natural gas without subsidies and mandates. Predicting disaster can also be a profitable business and a path to speech-making celebrity.

The happy ending is that the notion that the world is running out of resources always fails because the ingenuity of entrepreneurs, spurred by necessity and incentive, always exceeds the imagination of doomsayers. So we are learning again, and let’s hope memories will be longer this time.


Poster's comment - This article is over a month old. Oil is now about $46/bbl. It is worth dusting off as it was probably glossed over during the Holiday season and certainly eclipsed by recent events in France. There should be a new Operaesque reality show, "Where are the Peak Oil Henny Pennies today?"

It is amazing how just when Russia needed to be punished the price of oil, Russia's economic lifeblood, falls by 50%. The Lord sure does work in mysterious ways.

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#1. To: SOSO (#0)

What's really stupid is when you hear the suits saying that nobody can make money selling gas at $2 a gallon when oil is $50 a barrel.

As a young man, they were making the big bucks selling me gas at 20 cents a gal, when oil was well under $5.

tpaine  posted on  2015-01-13   19:55:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: SOSO (#0)

Peak oil is real in that we will run out of cheaply gotten oil. The Saudis are one of the few places that have the good stuff in an easy to get to place.

Also, these oil prices maybe artificially low as a competition buster. The shale oil and tar oil are hard to get at and will only sell at a profit if oil is at a certain level.

There is a lot of fake boogie man stuff in the peal oil debate - like we become a Mad Max hellscape where roaming marauders hunt down people for the "gazzaline" in their tanks but there is a lot of minimizing the threat going on as well.

Anyone who buys a gas guzzling truck now for an everyday driver is making a suckers bet.

Pericles  posted on  2015-01-13   19:57:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: tpaine, SOSO (#1)

As a young man, they were making the big bucks selling me gas at 20 cents a gal, when oil was well under $5.

Gas was .23 in 1955.

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi

What cost $.23 in 1955 would cost $1.97 in 2013.

Pericles  posted on  2015-01-13   20:01:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: SOSO (#0)

I believe a game changer is coming and soon.

New Electric Car Battery technology will soon be put on the consumer and manufacturer shelves. The holy graile of capacitance---electric car batteries that incorporate graphene carbon nano structures into the cell to increase their charge and capacitance and allow recharging in minutes instead of hours.

Unit costs are expected to drop by 50% or more too. High performance electric cars with 400 miles range air conditioning on and a quick recharge time.

TEA Party Reveler  posted on  2015-01-13   20:11:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: tpaine (#1)

As a young man, they were making the big bucks selling me gas at 20 cents a gal, when oil was well under $5.

Yep, that was in the days in which the Texas Railroad Commision determined the price of oil. To be more accurate we need to compare the inflation adjusted price of oil then and now as the following chart does.

The inflation adjusted price of oil was about $25/bbl in 1948 and it continually declined to about $20/bbl in 1972. You can see what has happened since. The average inflation adjusted price for oil is about $0/bbl, not to far form where it is priced today. Oil stayed below the $40/bbl mark from 1986- 2006. It's been the highest for the longest under Obama's administration. Has the price of oil over the past 40+ years been governed by market forces?

SOSO  posted on  2015-01-13   20:46:06 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: TEA Party Reveler (#4)

Unit costs are expected to drop by 50% or more too. High performance electric cars with 400 miles range air conditioning on and a quick recharge time.

Can I have like 3 or 4 batteries so I can go to Florida? That are easy to change?

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-01-13   20:52:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: TEA Party Reveler (#4)

New Electric Car Battery technology will soon be put on the consumer and manufacturer shelves. The holy graile of capacitance---electric car batteries that incorporate graphene carbon nano structures into the cell to increase their charge and capacitance and allow recharging in minutes instead of hours.

Unit costs are expected to drop by 50% or more too. High performance electric cars with 400 miles range air conditioning on and a quick recharge time.

I think this is a little further off in the future than you think. Once it does become affordable technology that offers as much or more benefit as the internal combustion engine it will definitely explode. It will be a huge change in the country's infrastructure and economy if and when it does.

I wish the government didn't see fit to try and speed this along by giving away hundreds of billions of dollars to politically connected companies that take the money and run.

Nexus6  posted on  2015-01-13   20:57:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Nexus6 (#7)

I think this is a little further off in the future than you think. Once it does become affordable technology that offers as much or more benefit as the internal combustion engine it will definitely explode. It will be a huge change in the country's infrastructure and economy if and when it does.

Talk about infrastructure, who will build all the 'green' generators (and what will power them) to replace all the internal combustion engines?

tpaine  posted on  2015-01-13   21:19:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Pericles (#2)

Peak oil is real in that we will run out of cheaply gotten oil.

Cheap in relation to what?

The more important issue with your post is that you really do not understand the concept of Peak Oil. I am not saying this to insult you but you really need to do some research on the subject. You will readily find what you need by doing a google on Peak Oil. Though you will not accpet anything that I offer you I still will ry to help you out by suggestion that you go to this link.

Simply stated:

"Peak oil is the point in time when the maximum rate of crude oil extraction is reached, after which the rate of extraction is expected to begin to decline… forever."

Suufice it to say the father of the Peak Oil concept made this prediction: "In 1956 M. King Hubbert, a geologist for Shell Oil, predicted the peaking of US Oil production would occur in the late 1960s." Even you cannot dispute that he was absouletly wrong.......not by a little but by a galaxy. I will be happy to have a civil, rational discussion of this with you once you get up to speed on the nature of the subject.

SOSO  posted on  2015-01-13   21:42:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: TEA Party Reveler (#4)

New Electric Car Battery technology will soon be put on the consumer and manufacturer shelves. The holy graile of capacitance---electric car batteries that incorporate graphene carbon nano structures into the cell to increase their charge and capacitance and allow recharging in minutes instead of hours.

And just where do you think electricty comes from? And at what cost? If in fact the $/miles of electric cars, including the cost of the new infrastructure neccessry to support them, is less than that for fossil fuel cars then people will switch to electric cars. IMO the only way that will happen in my life time is if the govenrment rigs the game to make the cost of electricity less expensive (which would be a sea change to what the Fed is currently doing) than the cost of gasoline (which the Fed is trying to artifical increase through regulation). In other words, I wouldn't hold your breath.

SOSO  posted on  2015-01-13   21:48:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Pericles (#9)

Sorry, here is the link.

SOSO  posted on  2015-01-13   21:51:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: SOSO (#10)

Electricity may come from a myriad of sources. Molten salt reactors offer efficiency and safety. Coal is still available once Obama gets deported back to Pakistan.

A reliable electric car at $30K would be a game changer. Most people are not commuting long distances every day. I believe gas consumption would drop rapidly once those electric cars become common.

TEA Party Reveler  posted on  2015-01-13   23:07:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: TEA Party Reveler (#12)

A reliable electric car at $30K would be a game changer. Most people are not commuting long distances every day. I believe gas consumption would drop rapidly once those electric cars become common.

If they ever do. BTW as a point of reference I first heard about the magic of ekectric cars and how they would change the world as we know it in the mid-60s - that was 4-5 hydrogen based economies ago and when the world was to run out of oil by 1980 or shortly thereafter. I am still waiting for all of this to come to pass as we are no closer to that day than we were 50+ years ago. And let's not even talk about solar everything.

SOSO  posted on  2015-01-13   23:26:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: SOSO (#13)

I first heard about the magic of ekectric cars and how they would change the world as we know it in the mid-60s -

I first heard about the magic of electric cars and how they would change the world as we know it in the mid-40s -

And the popular mechanics magazines were full of articles on how you could build your own, using modified Crosleys.. -- Now there was a hellofacar.

tpaine  posted on  2015-01-13   23:38:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: tpaine (#14)

And the popular mechanics magazines were full of articles on how you could build your own, using modified Crosleys.. -- Now there was a hellofacar.

You have me upped. So wha' happen to the promise of the electric car for at least 75 years now? Such game changers appear to always be just around the corner - many, many corners.

SOSO  posted on  2015-01-13   23:43:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: SOSO (#9)

Cheap in relation to what?

Cheap in relation to the amount it costs Saudi Arabia to extract oil from established oil fields.

Pericles  posted on  2015-01-13   23:47:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: SOSO (#11)

Sorry, here is the link.

The peak oil vs non peak oil debate has taken on a cult thing. I stated the dispassionate version of the debate.

Pericles  posted on  2015-01-13   23:48:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: SOSO, Pericles (#9)

In 1956 M. King Hubbert, a geologist for Shell Oil, predicted the peaking of US Oil production would occur in the late 1960s."
Even you cannot dispute that he was absouletly wrong.......not by a little but by a galaxy.

US Oil production did indeed peak in 1970.
And while the lure of $100+ oil drove domestic production up to levels not seen in decades, that market price proved economically unsustainable. And we'll probably see domestic production drop again as the current low market price forces the more costly oil off the market.

As I see it, Hubbert is being vindicated, not disproved.

The Earth's mineral resources are finite. And while they will never become fully depleted, they will gradually become too expensive to extract. Nobody knows precisely when that will occur for "global" oil production, but the last estimate that I'm familiar with is somewhere around 2030 (hard to believe that's only 15 years from now.) Anyway, with the Saudis and OPEC refusing to artificially restrain production, true market forces are occurring that we haven't seen in decades... and $50 oil will force sources of $60, $70, $80, $90 and $100+ oil OFF the market...

I don't have ESP or a crystal ball, so I'm not predicting the End of the World or a total market collapse or anything like that. However, I do believe that we're going to be in for a very bumpy roller coaster ride over the next 15~25 years as Hubbert's Peak proves to be true.

So everybody fasten their safety belts!

"Some people march to a different drummer — and some people polka."

Willie Green  posted on  2015-01-14   9:28:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Willie Green, SOSO (#18)

The Earth's mineral resources are finite. And while they will never become fully depleted, they will gradually become too expensive to extract. Nobody knows precisely when that will occur for "global" oil production, but the last estimate that I'm familiar with is somewhere around 2030 (hard to believe that's only 15 years from now.) Anyway, with the Saudis and OPEC refusing to artificially restrain production, true market forces are occurring that we haven't seen in decades... and $50 oil will force sources of $60, $70, $80, $90 and $100+ oil OFF the market...

That is how I see it as well. All the doom and gloom theories around Hubbert theories of course can be up-ended by new technology that replaces petroleum products and so on. I don't see it as the end of the world but the thesis that easy to obtain oil is dwindeling is reality.

Pericles  posted on  2015-01-14   9:41:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Pericles (#16)

Cheap in relation to the amount it costs Saudi Arabia to extract oil from established oil fields.

Sorry, but cheap in your context is relative to other non-oil energy sources. Oil still is the global least cost fuel compared to virtually all alternative fuels and likely to remian so barring major government interference.

Further, everything about this discussion is in context of the realities of supply and demand. To the extent tha Saudi has an excess of lower cost [production capacity it could only displace that amount of higher cost oil from the market. But if the market was still demanding more oil than the Saudi excess could displace all Saudi would be doing is shooting itself in the foot. Whatever other production Saudi might be able to shit-in would still be available for production in the future. That oil capacity is not lost.

SOSO  posted on  2015-01-14   11:36:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Willie Green (#18)

US Oil production did indeed peak in 1970.

You do not understand the essence of the topic. You too need to do some research. By definition once peak oil is hit oil production will never rise above it. By thta measure peak oil has not be observed. By your bastardized definition the world had reached peak oil about a half a dozen times since the 1970s.

WHat you and most others fail to inderstand is that in the real world by definition supply equals demand. It is entirely possible that the global production of oil will peak, and maybe within a decade or less, but it would be due to the forces of demand not supply. In other words, the demand for oil would decline to a point well below what the world still could produce.

SOSO  posted on  2015-01-14   11:44:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Willie Green, Y'ALL (#18)

The Earth's mineral resources are finite.

The Deep Hot Biosphere: The Myth of Fossil Fuels Thomas Gold, Freeman Dyson

35 Customer Reviews, from Amazon

Description

Released: May 18, 2001. 259 pages.

This book sets forth a set of truly controversial and astonishing theories: First, it proposes that below the surface of the earth is a biosphere of greater mass and volume than the biosphere the total sum of living things on our planet's continents and in its oceans. Second, it proposes that the inhabitants of this subterranean biosphere are not plants or animals as we know them, but heat-loving bacteria that survive on a diet consisting solely of hydrocarbons that is, natural gas and petroleum. And third and perhaps most heretically, the book advances the stunning idea that most hydrocarbons on Earth are not the byproduct of biological debris ("fossil fuels"), but were a common constituent of the materials from which the earth itself was formed some 4.5 billion years ago.

The implications are astounding. The theory proposes answers to often-asked questiions: Is the deep hot biosphere where life originated, and do Mars and other seemingly barren planets contain deep biospheres? Even more provocatively, is it possible that there is an enormous store of hydrocarbons upwelling from deep within the earth that can provide us with abundant supplies of gas and petroleum?

However far-fetched these ideas seem, they are supported by a growing body of evidence, and by the indisputable stature and seriousness Gold brings to any scientific debate. In this book we see a brilliant and boldly original thinker, increasingly a rarity in modern science, as he develops potentially revolutionary ideas about how our world works.

tpaine  posted on  2015-01-14   11:54:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: SOSO (#21)

By your bastardized definition the world had reached peak oil about a half a dozen times since the 1970s.

No... not true...
Although there has always been imprecision in forecasting, the predictions (for global) production have always been in the 2010~2030 range for as long as I can remember. Of course there are various oil producing regions (Alaska, North Sea, Gulf of Mexico, etc.) that have already peaked or haven't peaked yet.

We really won't know until after it happens and we have the real data available to prove it, but it's simply foolish to deny that the world's resources are finite.

The Good Lord can't miraculously create more oil like it was a bunch of loaves & fishes. It don't work that way.

"Some people march to a different drummer — and some people polka."

Willie Green  posted on  2015-01-14   12:08:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: tpaine, Willie Green, Y'ALL (#22)

This is somewhat of what the Russian's believe and loosely falls into the Abiogenic theory of the origin of petroleum on (or in) Earth. As far as I know there isn't widespread support for the theory but it hasn't been proved to be wrong yet.

SOSO  posted on  2015-01-14   12:12:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Willie Green, soso, tpaine (#23)

Do you folks believe that oil is a "fossil fuel"?

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-01-14   12:16:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Willie Green (#23)

Although there has always been imprecision in forecasting, the predictions (for global) production have always been in the 2010~2030 range for as long as I can remember.

Then you have a very short or incomplete memory. H ere is but just one source that puts the lie to your memeory.

"The date of the predicted peak has moved over the years. It was once supposed to arrive by Thanksgiving 2005. Then the "unbridgeable supply demand gap" was expected "after 2007." Then it was to arrive in 2011. Now "there is a significant risk of a peak before 2020."

Give time I assure you that I can find many other doomsday predictions that had the world out of oil by 2000. You can try to change history and/or ignore it. You can also try to change the terms of the debate. However the truth is still out there.

SOSO  posted on  2015-01-14   12:19:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: A K A Stone, Willie Green, tpaine (#25)

Do you folks believe that oil is a "fossil fuel"?

That's the best theory so far for me but I am certainly open to new facts. Must it be an either-or though?

SOSO  posted on  2015-01-14   12:21:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: SOSO (#20)

Cheap in relation to the amount it costs Saudi Arabia to extract oil from established oil fields.

Sorry, but cheap in your context is relative to other non-oil energy sources.

No, we were discusing oil extraction costs. Why would I compare oil to coal, etc?

Again, this is a fact, the low hanging fruit oil - easy to extract - is dwindling.

Peak oil people - pro or con tend to be like cult members on this topic.

Pericles  posted on  2015-01-14   12:21:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: A K A Stone, Willie Green, soso, tpaine (#25)

Do you folks believe that oil is a "fossil fuel"?

Yes.

Pericles  posted on  2015-01-14   12:22:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: SOSO (#27)

For your consideration

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-01-14   12:26:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: A K A Stone (#25)

Do you folks believe that oil is a "fossil fuel"?

No.

It's an established scientific fact that hydrocarbons are common throughout our solar system.

tpaine  posted on  2015-01-14   12:29:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Pericles (#29)

For your consideration too. The video I posted I am referring to.

How did dinosaurs get 20,000 ft under the ground?

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-01-14   12:33:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: SOSO (#26)

You can try to change history and/or ignore it. You can also try to change the terms of the debate. However the truth is still out there.

The only "truth" that I need to know is that there is not an infinite supply of oil on this planet, just like there isn't an infinite supply of gold or silver. You can keep exploring all you want, and you may even discover some new deposits that you didn't know about before. But the more you extract, the less that remains. And it's just gonna keep getting more and more expensive to discover and extract the sources we haven't found yet.

Unless you think we can survive getting hit by an asteroid that can deliver us another gazillion barrels, that's simply the way it is. Peak Oil is gonna happen, and quibbling about precisely when isn't gonna change that.

"Some people march to a different drummer — and some people polka."

Willie Green  posted on  2015-01-14   12:47:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Willie Green (#33)

But the more you extract, the less that remains.

Consider this.

Oil is the second most abundent liquid on the planet earth.

Water is obviously the most common liquid. I think we both agree that there is finite supply of water.

So if we keep using up the water we will run out right?

What if there is so much oil in the earth that it will not really run out like water will not really run out.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-01-14   12:51:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: A K A Stone (#32)

How did dinosaurs get 20,000 ft under the ground?

Continental drift, plate tectonics, etc.
The same geologic forces that made the mountains.

20,000 ft is 240,000 inches, so even at only 1" per year, it only takes 1/4 million years to go 20,000 ft. And the dinos roamed the planet tens and even hundreds of millions of years ago, so getting buried 20,000 ft down is no problem.

"Some people march to a different drummer — and some people polka."

Willie Green  posted on  2015-01-14   13:03:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: A K A Stone (#32)

How did dinosaurs get 20,000 ft under the ground?

Over billions of years new layers are deposited on top of old. Some were under the sea, etc. I know there is a theory that oil is made inside the earth by some sort of geothermal process but even under that theory it takes forever so it can't be considered a renewable source of energy in any of our lifetimes.

Pericles  posted on  2015-01-14   13:05:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: A K A Stone (#34)

So if we keep using up the water we will run out right?

No, water doesn't get destroyed when we use it. It gets contaminated, but not destroyed. It leaves the conamination behind when it evaporates and comes back purified when it rains (unless the air has too much contamination in it.

Oil gets destroyed when we consume it and burn it. Maybe someday the carbon will become oil again, but that takes at least tens of thousands of years. It doesn't "recycle" as fast as water. Oh, you can get some to recycle pretty quickly as plant or animal oils... but not enough to compesate for using the stuff that's been stored up undergraound for millions of years.

"Some people march to a different drummer — and some people polka."

Willie Green  posted on  2015-01-14   13:14:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Willie Green (#35)

it only takes 1/4 million years to go 20,000 ft

I'm one of those young earth unapologetic creationists.

I've never seen any credible evidence that the earth is millions of years old. Seems to me just circular reasoning. A theory to prove a theory to prove a theory. A house of cards imo.

Not that I think that will change your mind. Just telling you where I am coming from.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-01-14   13:23:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Pericles (#36)

I know there is a theory that oil is made inside the earth by some sort of geothermal process but even under that theory it takes forever so it can't be considered a renewable source of energy in any of our lifetimes.

I think that theory is more credible then oil is a fossil fuel.

You know I don't believe in that billions or millions of years stuff.

The sun has infinite "resources too"

If the earth was billions of years old how big would the sun have had to be just one billion years ago? So big that we would be like a burnt marshmellow and would have long ago turned to dust. IMO. :)

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-01-14   13:26:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: A K A Stone (#30) (Edited)

Back in the days when I was in grade school, we were taught that oil was dead dinosaur juice. However, it's plain to see the amount of oil taken out of the earth in a month exceeds the mass of all the dinosaurs that ever lived. Some how the heat of the earth must be producing petrol then seeping it slowly up through falts in the earth's surface to form puddles which are accesible. We're exhausting all the easy puddles. The question is, can the earth's production and seepage keep up with the demand. We keep having to drill deeper and deeper to find the puddles.

rlk  posted on  2015-01-14   13:52:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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