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United States News
See other United States News Articles

Title: Trayvon Martin Killed By Single Gunshot Fired From 'Intermediate Range,' Autopsy Shows
Source: By NBC News and msnbc.com
URL Source: http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2 ... ?chromedomain=openchannel&lite
Published: May 16, 2012
Author: By NBC News and msnbc.com
Post Date: 2012-05-16 20:20:15 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 7535
Comments: 71

Florida teenager Trayvon Martin died from a single gunshot wound to the chest fired from “intermediate range,” according to an autopsy report reviewed Wednesday by NBC News.

The official report, prepared by the medical examiner in Volusia County, Fla., also found that the 17-year-old Martin had one other fresh injury – a small abrasion, no more than a quarter-inch in size – on his left ring finger below the knuckle.

Separately, a medical report on Martin’s alleged killer, 28-year-old George Zimmerman, prepared by his personal physician the day after Martin’s shooting in Sanford, Fla., on Feb. 26, found that the Neighborhood Watch volunteer suffered a likely broken nose, swelling, two black eyes and cuts to the scalp. That report, first reported Tuesday by ABC News, also was reviewed by NBC News. Advertise | AdChoices

Both documents are part of a mountain of evidence – up to 300 pages and 67 CDs of witness statements, surveillance videos and other material-- expected to be made public soon in connection with the second-degree murder case against Zimmerman.

Zimmerman allegedly shot Martin during a confrontation inside the gated community in Sanford where Zimmerman was a neighborhood volunteer and where Martin was visiting his father’s fiancée.

After first reporting a suspicious person in the neighborhood in a phone call to Sanford police, Zimmerman followed the teenager before a fatal confrontation that remains shrouded in mystery.

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#1. To: Brian S (#0)

Textbook case of self-defense.

But thanks for playing.

LoonyMing: I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires.
Translation: IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so fucking what?' —Stephen Fry

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2012-05-16   20:41:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Capitalist Eric (#1)

Textbook case of self-defense.

You've got to be kidding me!

Oh, you're referring to the other guy.

Got it.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2012-05-16   20:49:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Capitalist Eric (#1) (Edited)

What was the weapon that Zimmerman used? Do you know?

EDIT: Nevermind, found it. Kel-Tec 9 mm.

I can tell you this, it was most likely within 8-10 feet max, or Z likely would have missed.

I own a Kel-Tec 9 mm and it's not accurate at all beyond that distance.

some text

We The People  posted on  2012-05-16   20:50:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: We The People (#3)

Try the Springfield XD-9 with a 4" barrel. Surprisingly good.

LoonyMing: I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires.
Translation: IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so fucking what?' —Stephen Fry

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2012-05-16   20:57:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Fred Mertz (#2)

Where do you live Fried.. at some state institution?

Thunderbird  posted on  2012-05-16   21:00:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Capitalist Eric, sneakypete (#4)

Right now I'm leaning toward the Springfield 1911.

Haven't owned or fired a 1911 in years. Maybe a S&W.

What I'd really like to find is a mid 20's Colt. But they're so pricey.

In a 1911 would you go with Springfield or S&W? Or what?

some text

We The People  posted on  2012-05-16   21:04:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: We The People, badeye (#3)

What was the weapon that Zimmerman used?

It was published.

I have this idiosyncracy about the weapon and the report...

It is a minor detail, but a major one in my mind.

The reports said he (dead Trayvon) reached for the weapon and there wasn't a round in the chamber when the cops got there; implying he was reaching for the weapon and the fact that Trayvon 'jammed' the weapon or some such.

That is total bullshit.

Research it and see.

Z-mann cleared his weapon after he killed the kid. A normal action.

I wish I could explain it better in writing. Ask anyone about that portion of the report. I'm not a weapons expert; but this is a stickler with me.

Edit: I've just decided to ping our resident combat pistol guy, badeye, for comment.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2012-05-16   21:09:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Thunderbird (#5)

Where do you live Fried.. at some state institution?

Were you really in jail? That must be the lowest of the low.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2012-05-16   21:10:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Thunderbird (#5)

You'd have unloaded on Trayvon about 5 or 6 times, right?

That is one point in Z-mann's defense.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2012-05-16   21:14:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Fred Mertz, Badeye (#7)

the fact that Trayvon 'jammed' the weapon or some such.

That is total bullshit.

I've not heard anything like that.

Z-mann cleared his weapon after he killed the kid. A normal action.

I wouldn't have cleared my weapon. At that point, I wouldn't know what to expect next. I would definitely have let it hit the ground seconds before the police pulled up though.

I've just decided to ping our resident combat pistol guy, badeye, for comment.

Really? I didn't know that.

Badeye, if you were shopping for a 1911, which ones would you choose from?

some text

We The People  posted on  2012-05-16   21:20:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: We The People (#10)

I've not heard anything like that. [no round in the chamber]

It was in the early reports but overlooked IMO.

You apparently haven't followed this story closely weeps.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2012-05-16   21:26:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Fred Mertz (#11)

You apparently haven't followed this story closely weeps.

Probably not as closely as those who have already convicted the shooter. :o)

some text

We The People  posted on  2012-05-16   21:35:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: We The People (#12)

Well, it is a case made for TV.

They pick and choose their stories for maximum viewing.

Remember Kobe Bryant? Just one example...

We don't want to talk about how we're losing in Afghanistan, do we?

Fred Mertz  posted on  2012-05-16   21:45:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Fred Mertz (#13)

We don't want to talk about how we're losing in Afghanistan, do we?

NO! :o)

(We won the war in short order. We started losing when the nation building began.)

some text

We The People  posted on  2012-05-16   21:49:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: We The People (#14)

We won nothing in Afghanistan.

So there.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2012-05-16   21:56:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: We The People (#6)

In a 1911 would you go with Springfield or S&W? Or what?

Kimber, hands down.

For the money, you absolutely can't beat them. They've figured out a way to mass-produce match-grade weapons for a price slightly above the typical price for a non-match version of Colt or S&W.

My absolute favorite:


Specifications
Caliber: .45 ACP
Height (inches) 90° to barrel: 5.25
Weight (ounces) with empty magazine: 38
Length (inches): 8.7
Magazine capacity: 7
Recoil spring (pounds): 16.0
Full-length guide rod
Also available: 9 mm
FrameMaterial: Stainless steel
Finish: Satin silver
Width (inches): 1.28
SlideMaterial: Stainless steel
Finish: Satin silver
Front serrations
BarrelLength (inches): 5
Material: Steel, match grade
Stainless steel match grade bushing
Twist rate (left hand): 16
SightsFixed low profile
Radius (inches): 6.8
GripsBlack synthetic
Double diamond
TriggerAluminum, match grade
Factory setting (approximate pounds): 4.0 - 5.0
MSRP:$964.00

LoonyMing: I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires.
Translation: IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so fucking what?' —Stephen Fry

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2012-05-16   22:09:45 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Fred Mertz (#9)

You'd have unloaded on Trayvon about 5 or 6 times, right?

Nahh..If I were the Z-man I'd have sicced my Rottie on him.

No Tyrone's where you live Fred..really?

Thunderbird  posted on  2012-05-16   22:23:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Capitalist Eric (#16)

Excellent choice!

That may very well be what I end up with. I like the Tactical Custom II.

www.kimberamerica.com/191...cal-ii/tactical-custom-ii

some text

We The People  posted on  2012-05-16   23:18:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: We The People (#6)

In a 1911 would you go with Springfield or S&W? Or what?

Since I didn't even know S&W builds a 1911,I'd go with Springfield. They've been doing it for years and have a good reputation.

If you prefer to buy a used basic 1911,look around for a Norinco. It pains me to say this,but they were really good basic military model 1911A1's. Maybe the only Chinese product ever built that had good steel.

"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.

sneakypete  posted on  2012-05-16   23:50:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: We The People, Fred Mertz (#10)

I've just decided to ping our resident combat pistol guy, badeye, for comment.

Really? I didn't know that.

Fred was being sarcastic.

"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.

sneakypete  posted on  2012-05-16   23:54:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: sneakypete, We The People (#19)

In a 1911 would you go with Springfield or S&W? Or what?

Since I didn't even know S&W builds a 1911,I'd go with Springfield. They've been doing it for years and have a good reputation.

If you prefer to buy a used basic 1911,look around for a Norinco. It pains me to say this,but they were really good basic military model 1911A1's. Maybe the only Chinese product ever built that had good steel.

S&W makes some great 1911s. Their Elite series is a match grade piece right out of the box. S&W has always used an external ejector design so that is one major difference from a pure Browning 1911 design since he used an internal ejector on on THAT design. External ejectors are better, you don't have to time them and if they break they are an easy fix. In fact in ALL of his later designs of autoloaders Browning also used an external ejector design.

One thing about Kimber is their legendary LACK of customer service, (if you are just a citizen). Also it's alot harder to get Kimber mags. Don't get me wrong, I like Kimbers and I'll be getting a carry one soon. I looked at one yesterday, (ultra Carry II), but I also looked at the compact Glock and the Para Warthog.

As far as I'm concerned you can't have too many .45s/1911s. If I was forced to keep just one I'd keep my S&W 1911STA, it ROCKS, (I love that it came with a titanium firing pin and adjustable trigger etc).

I used to be a 1911 purist, now I'm just a .45 acp purist, (and .40 cal, and 10mm, and .357 and 9mm and 22 mag and 22 lr and ...), ;^)

btw; to me, my full sized S&W 1911STA handles better than almost any 45 that I've ever owned, and I REALLY dig the ALL stainless frame and slide.

Personally I would not own a ChiCom anything, BUT that said, I do own several RUSSIAN shotguns and AKS which I like for what they were designed for.

I've also been looking at Sig Sauer P220s and the H&Ks, which are both WAY pricey, (Kimber level or more), for all metal ones. Sig has been having quality issues for the last couple of years and H&K's customer service makes Kimber look good. So it's always a matter of taste.

The all metal Springfields are OK places to start, I have no opinion on any of the poly receiver firearms, except to say that as an old fart I always prefer ALL METAL pieces.

Hope this helps.

ALWAYS, check the latest CDNN Investments catalog, they have KILLER deals on firearms. I saw a Sig P220 with aluminum grips and 2 extra 6 rnd mags for around $550. + shipping and xfer fees. (I'd avoid some of their optics and little stuff because most of them are ChiCom made).

If I could I'd buy them ALL.

I saw a nib unfired S&W 1911STA on AK list last week for $850. , but I snoozed. So they are around if you look for them.

Sorry ... you just kind of hit a special nerve re shopping for .45acp pistols with me.

Good luck and happy shooting.

Spoiled, stupid and ignorant, brain dead phuckwads, libTURD fools, tools, and idiots, are the real sickness; the messiah "king" obammy and his regime are only the symptoms.

Mad Dog  posted on  2012-05-17   3:08:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Brian S, Fred Mertz, We The People, Capitalist Eric, Thunderbird, sneakypete (#0)

Trayvon Martin Killed By Single Gunshot Fired From 'Intermediate Range,' Autopsy Shows

I hate to drag you all away from gun porn and insulting each other but what is this intermediate range? 1 foot? 10 feet? It may make a big difference in the credibility of Z's story.

Intermediate Range Gunshot

An intermediate range gunshot usually will deposit a significant amount of particulate residue that is not easily seen with the eye but can be detected through a microscopic examination and through chemical testing. The results may read something like:

Exhibit 1 (shirt) was found to have a bullet entrance hole in the chest area.  A deposit of gunshot residues were found around this hole that are consistent with those that would be deposited by an intermediate range gunshot.

An intermediate range gunshot, like that seen in the above image, can range from just beyond the 12-inch range out to 24 to 36 inches. This depends greatly upon the caliber, barrel length and powder type used in the ammunition.


When no residues are found around a bullet hole, it can mean several things.

  1. The firearm was at a distance far enough away that the residues did not reach the garment.

  2. An intervening object between the firearm and garment preventing the residues from reaching the garment.

  3. Gunshot residues were removed through severe handling, heavy bleeding, or by some other means.

Since a shooting by Z can fall in the range of 15 inches, it seems that nothing in this report impeaches any portion of Z's account of a self-defense shooting.

Notice how libmedia never bothers to mention this little fact as they continue to peddle their "white Hispanic stalker" meme.

TooConservative  posted on  2012-05-17   7:12:32 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Mad Dog (#21) (Edited)

ALWAYS, check the latest CDNN Investments catalog, they have KILLER deals on firearms. I saw a Sig P220 with aluminum grips and 2 extra 6 rnd mags for around $550. + shipping and xfer fees.

I bought one of the "full size" Sig P220s with aluminum grips, night sights and 2 magazines from CDNN about a year ago.... They have them made especially for them and the aluminum grips are good for people with smaller hands.....

Haven't had a single FTE or FTF yet and have run all kinds of ammo (cheap and expensive) thru it. Sights were only slightly off to the left when I got it (which seems to be the case with most Sigs) one adjustment with a punch took care of it.... Shoots nice tight groupings... Very nice pistol for the price.....

Leftardism/Liberalism: The chickenschitt way to deal with life’s problems by creating solutions to problems that don’t exist, thereby creating a problem where none existed before and then having to find a solution to that one…

CZ82  posted on  2012-05-17   7:24:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: TooConservative (#22)

Notice how libmedia never bothers to mention this little fact as they continue to peddle their "white Hispanic stalker" meme

With extra emphasis on the "White" part!!!

Leftardism/Liberalism: The chickenschitt way to deal with life’s problems by creating solutions to problems that don’t exist, thereby creating a problem where none existed before and then having to find a solution to that one…

CZ82  posted on  2012-05-17   7:48:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: CZ82 (#24)

With extra emphasis on the "White" part!!!

Whiter than Elizabeth Warren?     : )

Z's grandmother who virtually raised him was half-black and Peruvian. He's a hundred times more black and a hundred times more Hispanic than the Harvard Squaw is a Cherokee.

Thanks for the reply though. I posted this in Breaking at LP and didn't get any reply at all. Apparently, I am the only person who didn't previously know the technical meaning of "intermediate range" gunshots or something. I thought it was rather interesting but I'm usually wrong about these things.

TooConservative  posted on  2012-05-17   9:32:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: TooConservative (#22)

I hate to drag you all away from gun porn and insulting each other but what is this intermediate range? 1 foot? 10 feet? It may make a big difference in the credibility of Z's story.

Concurring bump. Both the distance and the trajectory are important.

-btw I'm calling "bullshit" on this intermediate range conclusion by MSNBC. I read elsewhere that there was stippling around the gunshot wound indicating powder burns.

Thunderbird  posted on  2012-05-17   9:58:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Thunderbird (#26) (Edited)

Concurring bump. Both the distance and the trajectory are important.

I'd like to know the path the bullet took through Trayvon's body.

If the front entry wound indicated a path from lower-to-higher, that would be consistent with a shot fired while Trayvon was on top of him. The sharper the angle, the more it supports Z. Well, unless Trayvon was laying on the ground and Z shot him there (not a bit of evidence supports that yet).

-btw I'm calling "bullshit" on this intermediate range conclusion by MSNBC. I read elsewhere that there was stippling around the gunshot wound indicating powder burns.

They sure manage to avoid conveying the actual meaning of "intermediate". Most people will hear that and just assume, like I did, that it means something like 3-6 feet or more. That would bad for Z's account and he will walk if nothing in his account is disproved. And I don't think MSNBC failed to consider whether people knew "intermediate" or not; I think they deliberately used this as an inflammatory article against some uppity Hispanic who thinks he's white or something.

The conflicts between MSNBC's version of the autopsy report (which they never actually quote though they pretend they are) and what we've read at most every other site. For instance, that detail over the skinned knuckles.

TooConservative  posted on  2012-05-17   10:37:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: TooConservative (#25)

I thought it was rather interesting but I'm usually wrong about these things.

I was guessing that "intermediate" was something beyond arms reach, 5 or 6 feet at least, so I found it informative.


"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.

hondo68  posted on  2012-05-17   10:40:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: TooConservative (#22)

An intermediate range gunshot, like that seen in the above image, can range from just beyond the 12-inch range out to 24 to 36 inches. This depends greatly upon the caliber, barrel length and powder type used in the ammunition.

I agree with your conclusions, that this could easily fall within the scenario that Z claims to have occurred. As well, wasn't Martin also wearing a hoodie, which would have further shielded the body from stippling and burn marks?

The quote also throws in some other questions, which will only be answered by using Z's pistol, and doing some testing to determine the likely distance. It would necessarily include shooting through the hoodie (and whatever he may have worn under it, such as a T-shirt), to get solid data upon which to base "medium" or "close" range.

All this is JMHO, of course; I'm in no way a forensics expert.

LoonyMing: I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires.
Translation: IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so fucking what?' —Stephen Fry

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2012-05-17   11:09:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Thunderbird (#26)

-btw I'm calling "bullshit" on this intermediate range conclusion by MSNBC.

Yeah, that was my point on my first reply of this thread. I guess I was a bit too oblique in how I expressed it...

LoonyMing: I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires.
Translation: IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so fucking what?' —Stephen Fry

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2012-05-17   11:12:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: TooConservative (#22)

Notice how libmedia never bothers to mention this little fact as they continue to peddle their "white Hispanic stalker" meme.

It makes sense to me. Why else would there have been a confrontation between these two?

It was a terrible and tragic result that could have been easily avoided. The police department was also at fault for trying to write it off. Terrible.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2012-05-17   11:14:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Fred Mertz (#31)

The hearing is on August 8 !

The trial is after the election !

We need it to see how stupid the lib prosecution - element is !

If you ... don't use exclamation points --- you should't be typeing ! Commas - semicolons - question marks are for girlie boys !

BorisY  posted on  2012-05-17   11:22:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Mad Dog, We The People, CZ82 (#21)

One thing about Kimber is their legendary LACK of customer service, (if you are just a citizen). Also it's alot harder to get Kimber mags. Don't get me wrong, I like Kimbers and I'll be getting a carry one soon.

With my first one (about 12 years ago), I had some FTF issues... sent it back to the factory, and the polished the ramp a bit more (they're usually mirror- smooth, anyway), took about 2 weeks turnaround time... STILL had feed problems.

It turned out the Kimber magazines often have rough edges on the inside of the mag, where the top round lays against the mag fingers, ready to be stripped out and pushed into the chamber. I took a knife sharpenening stone, rubbed on the offending edges for about 30 seconds per side, and haven't had a failure (to feed OR eject) since. With every Kimber magazine I have, that's always been an issue, and I've learned to clean them up very quickly. Easy peezy. But nowadays, when I buy spares, I get Wilson Combat mags. Very good prices, and you get 8 in the mag instead of 7.

Their completely black low-profile sights bugged me, though- in low-light conditions, you've got nothing to aim from... Shooting at the standard round, black targets was a bitch. For a while, I painted the Glock-style marks on my guns, but finally I shelled out the money, bought Tritium 3-dots. Now I love 'em.

As to the other manufacturers, I haven't tried them. I "grew up" on the Colt .45 in the Navy, so when it came time to buy as a civilian, I went to a range in San Jose, rented out a bunch of different 1911's, and I soon as I shot a Kimber, I knew that was it; no need to keep looking.

Between the dead-on accuracy and consistency, the smooth-as-silk trigger and the price, I don't bother considering anything else. As a side note, getting used to the silky trigger allowed me to go back to the cheaper guns (where you can feel the block "hang" just before it fires), and not have any more anticipation problems. Now, I'm just rock-steady, whether it's with a Ruger P- 89-94, the XDs or anything else... The Kimber forced me to become a much better shooter.

YMMV, of course.

An interesting side-note on the Springfield XD-9... while they're absolutely incredible for reliability, simplicity and offer pretty good accuracy, they have very stiff recoil springs, and will not tolerate cheap ammo from a company that does "light" powder loads. If you run good stuff, they'll rock and roll forever, it seems. The other aspect of this, is that my wife simply didn't have the upper-body strength to operate the slide correctly.

So one day we stopped at the Cabelas outside Philly... imagine a gun-case 100' long, ALL pistols. I figured, if she couldn't find something she liked here, than I was completely screwed. I had her start trying out different 9mm models, to find one she could slide back easily. She picked out the Ruger P89, because it's easy to operate.

As a bonus, you can pick up a nice used one for ~$300, and a new one for <$500, all day. It easily matches the accuracy of the XD-9, and has (so far) been very reliable. We picked up a new P94 as well, essentially the same thing. She's VERY happy with them, and getting better with every trip to the range.

LoonyMing: I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires.
Translation: IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so fucking what?' —Stephen Fry

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2012-05-17   11:38:06 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Mad Dog (#21)

I've also been looking at Sig Sauer P220s and the H&Ks,

I plan on buying a CZ 75 SP01 in 40 S&W in the near future. Not because I really need another handgun (or most of the ones I already have),but because I don't have a 40 cal and they are really nice guns.

I'll probably buy a basic gun because I am a firm believer in the theory that the less crap there is the less crap there is to go wrong.

Not to mention the fact that they are ALL "ghost sights" to me nowadays,so why pay more for useless upgrades? I can spend that money on dies,brass,primers,and powder.

"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.

sneakypete  posted on  2012-05-17   12:21:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: TooConservative (#22)

What is this intermediate range?

Near as I can tell,it is located somewhere between "here" and "there".

"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.

sneakypete  posted on  2012-05-17   12:23:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Capitalist Eric (#29)

As well, wasn't Martin also wearing a hoodie, which would have further shielded the body from stippling and burn marks?

EXCELLENT catch! They show a photo of the t-shirt he was wearing UNDER the hoodie,but no photo of the hoodie itself.

It stands to reason the majority of the gunpowder residue would be on the hoodie and not the tshirt.

Looks like another case of reporting with a agenda in order to influence a court outcome and inflame a gullible public.

"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011

Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs

Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter.

sneakypete  posted on  2012-05-17   12:27:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: sneakypete (#36) (Edited)

LoonyMing: I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires.
Translation: IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so fucking what?' —Stephen Fry

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2012-05-17   12:43:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: sneakypete (#36)

EXCELLENT catch! They show a photo of the t-shirt he was wearing UNDER the hoodie,but no photo of the hoodie itself.

In all fairness, that photo is not the one Martin was wearing, just an example (hyperlinked at the top of the post).

I'm just asking what they used to justify the "medium" range determination? Was it skin marks? Did they look at the hoodie? Did they test the weapon with the same ammo it had been loaded with?

To just say "it was THIS distance" just seems irresponsible, to me...

LoonyMing: I brandish my ignorance like a crucifix at vampires.
Translation: IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so fucking what?' —Stephen Fry

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2012-05-17   12:43:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: hondo68 (#28)

I was guessing that "intermediate" was something beyond arms reach, 5 or 6 feet at least, so I found it informative.

It does make you realize that there was a deliberate misimpression that the writer tried to create, eh?

Well, unless the MSNBC staffers are bigger raving gun fanatics than Ted Nugent and just happen to believe that everyone else is too. But then, we know that isn't true and there probably isn't a single gun owner on the entire staff.

TooConservative  posted on  2012-05-17   13:13:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Capitalist Eric (#29)

I agree with your conclusions, that this could easily fall within the scenario that Z claims to have occurred. As well, wasn't Martin also wearing a hoodie, which would have further shielded the body from stippling and burn marks?

Hoodie, yes. But no more details are out yet.

When you start to think about this "intermediate" bit, you realize what a piece of propaganda it is.

And, if you absorb this supposed "fact" about "intermediate", then you're ripe for the next lie they decide to tell in the Tragic Tale Of Trayvon.

TooConservative  posted on  2012-05-17   13:16:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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