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Title: Spending blitz by outside groups helped secure big GOP wins (Rove, American Crossroads)
Source: MSNBC
URL Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39995283/ns/politics-decision_2010/
Published: Nov 3, 2010
Author: Michael Isikoff and Rich Gardella
Post Date: 2010-11-03 23:03:43 by Hondo68
Keywords: McCain-Feingold overturned, Supreme Court ruling, unlimited contributions
Views: 104032
Comments: 94

A tightly coordinated effort by outside Republican groups, spearheaded by Karl Rove and fueled by tens of millions of dollars in contributions from Wall Street hedge fund moguls and other wealthy donors, helped secure big GOP midterm victories Tuesday, according to campaign spending figures and Republican fundraising insiders.

Leading the GOP spending pack was a pair of groups — American Crossroads and its affiliate, Crossroads GPS — both of which were co-founded by two former aides in the George W. Bush White House: Rove, and Ed Gillespie.

Together, the groups — which are not formally part of the Republican Party — spent more than $38 million on attack ads and campaign mailings against Democrats, according to figures compiled by the Sunlight Foundation, a nonpartisan group that tracks campaign spending in congressional races.

A substantial portion of Crossroads GPS’ money came from a small circle of extremely wealthy Wall Street hedge fund and private equity moguls, according to GOP fundraising sources who spoke with NBC News on condition of anonymity. These donors have been bitterly opposed to a proposal by congressional Democrats — and endorsed by the Obama administration — to increase the tax rates on compensation that hedge funds pay their partners, the sources said.

A scorecard compiled by NBC News shows the ad barrage appeared to mostly pay off: Republican candidates won nine of the 12 Senate races and 14 of 22 House races where American Crossroads and Crossroads GPS spent money.

That had the groups’ leaders gloating Wednesday about what they described as their pivotal role in the election results.

‘A decisive blow for freedom’
“Thank you, America!” read the banner headline on a blog posting by Steve Law, president of American Crossroads, on the group’s website. The posting proclaimed that the organizations’ team had “struck a decisive blow for freedom” with the election results. “Together we not only retired House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, we also achieved the largest House seat switch since 1938!” Law wrote.

While it is hard to calculate exactly how much of an impact the Crossroads groups had in an election that was tilting Republican for a variety of reasons, their efforts helped fuel an substantial overall spending advantage by outside GOP groups. Overall, outside Republican groups outspent outside Democratic groups, $245 million to $191 million — a $54 million edge.

The Crossroads affiliates and similar groups were formed after a controversial Supreme Court ruling in January that permitted outside political groups to collect unlimited contributions from corporations, labor unions and other wealthy donors and use them directly on campaign ads. In addition, groups that were organized as nonprofit “advocacy” organizations (such as Crossroads GPS) did not have to disclose the identity of their donors.

As a result, the airwaves this campaign season were flooded with millions of dollars in attack ads, paid for by secret donors. Out of nearly $300 million spent on congressional campaigns ads by both parties, 42 percent were funded by undisclosed donors, according to a study by the Center for Responsive Politics.

Just behind the Crossroads groups in outside spending on the GOP-side were the Chamber of Commerce ($31 million) and the American Action Network ($14 million), according to Sunlight Foundation figures. Neither disclosed the identity of its donors.

While outside Democratic groups belatedly tried to mimic the GOP efforts, they fell short. America’s Families First Action Fund, a group founded by a number of former Democratic strategists that operated much like American Crossroads, wasn’t organized until last summer and spent just $5.5 million — $1 million of which came from a non-disclosing nonprofit affiliate, according to the Sunlight Foundation. The big outside spenders on the Democratic side were labor unions such as AFSME ($10.7 million) and the SEIU ($10 million.)

Groups coordinated spending, insiders say
In addition to the spending advantage, outside GOP groups like the Crossroads groups, Americans for Prosperity and Club for Growth coordinated their efforts, divvying up which groups would spend in which races at which times. The groups’ leaders would meet and talk regularly in sessions often led by Rove or one of his associates, according to the two GOP fundraising sources familiar with how the organizations worked.

Spending by outside groups linked to both parties

The coordination could be seen in spending patterns in key Senate races.

In Illinois, for example, GOP winner Mark Kirk benefited from $5.5 million in attack ads from the Crossroads groups targeting his Democratic opponent, Alexi Giannoulias.

In Wisconsin, meanwhile, the Crossroads groups didn’t spend any money, but the Chamber of Commerce spent $748,000 on attack ads that helped defeat Democratic Sen. Russ Feingold. (Feingold, ironically, was co-author of the McCain-Feingold campaign finance law whose restrictions on advertisements by outside groups was overturned by the Supreme Court ruling earlier this year, paving the way for the creation of groups such as American Crossroads.)

The long term impact of the spending by the outside groups during this election will be to lay the groundwork for an even bigger effort during the presidential campaign two years from now. That will substantially diminish the role of the two political parties, according to campaign finance experts.

Other than running primaries, “who needs (political parties)?” asked Brett Kappel, a Washington lawyer who specializes in campaign finance laws. Contributions to the parties remain “heavily regulated,” under strict limits and must be publicly disclosed, he noted.

“After this election,” Kappel said, “all of that can be outsourced to unregulated entities that don’t have to disclose their donors.”


Poster Comment:

McCain Feingold and SCOTUS, a tag team to screw America.

Feingold lost the election, but McStain got reelected. Go figure.

AFAIK no supreme court justice has ever been impeached or removed. Congress has the power, but they'll never use it. They're too corrupt, and fear the same treatment.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


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#1. To: hondo68 (#0)

Sunlight Foundation, a nonpartisan group

What a load of bullshit!

Ellen S. Miller "is the co-founder and Executive Director of the Sunlight Foundation. Ms. Miller was the publisher of TomPaine.com and a senior fellow at The American Prospect.

Ibluafartsky  posted on  2010-11-03   23:12:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: hondo68 (#0)

These groups were just learning the ropes this time. Next election, they'll be completely invisible.

Skip Intro  posted on  2010-11-03   23:15:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: hondo68 (#0)

A tightly coordinated effort by outside Republican groups, spearheaded by Karl Rove and fueled by tens of millions of dollars in contributions from Wall Street hedge fund moguls and other wealthy donors, helped secure big GOP midterm victories Tuesday, according to campaign spending figures and Republican fundraising insiders.

AWESOME!

-----------------------------------------------------------
Barrack Hussein Obama
President of the United States of America said that some Americans ; "They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back."

WhiteSands  posted on  2010-11-03   23:21:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: hondo68 (#0)

Republican candidates won nine of the 12 Senate races and 14 of 22 House races where American Crossroads and Crossroads GPS spent money.

Rove did better than Palin.

I think after yesterday it's a pretty good bet that Palin runs as a third party candidate in 2012.


On January 3, 2011 the GOP assumes responsibility for deficit spending.

go65  posted on  2010-11-03   23:24:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: go65 (#4)

I think after yesterday it's a pretty good bet that Palin runs as a third party candidate in 2012.

Don't underestimate the stupidity of the Republican party. No doubt they'll come up with a ticket guaranteed to get hObama reelected. Surefire losers, like McCain and Palin.

Romulin/Huksterbee 2012! It's easy, try it.

Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-03   23:45:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: hondo68 (#5)

Don't underestimate the stupidity of the Republican party. No doubt they'll come up with a ticket guaranteed to get hObama reelected. Surefire losers, like McCain and Palin.

Romney is going to be tough to beat, and when he starts winning early Paling will throw a hissy fit and run as a third-party candidate.


On January 3, 2011 the GOP assumes responsibility for deficit spending.

go65  posted on  2010-11-03   23:55:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: go65 (#6)

Paling will throw a hissy fit

Drunk already, shill?

Ibluafartsky  posted on  2010-11-03   23:58:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: hondo68 (#0)

BULLSHIT

I can name Dem after Dem who went for the jugular, got outspent, and beat the Rep.

Boxer, Bennet, Exposing Climate Deniers Fiorina, Buck.

mcgowanjm  posted on  2010-11-04   8:00:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: go65 (#6)

Paling will throw a hissy fit and run as a third-party candidate.

The First thing Rove has to do:

Get rid of OMFGPalin. She's Cholera to the GOP's Haiti. 8D

Tina Fey, in just offhand remarks, destroys her.

mcgowanjm  posted on  2010-11-04   8:02:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: go65 (#4)

I think after yesterday it's a pretty good bet that Palin runs as a third party candidate in 2012.

I've got a thousand dollars that says this is bullshit.

Let me know.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-11-04   9:13:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: hondo68 (#5)

Don't underestimate the stupidity of the Republican party.

Gee....something happened this week with the Republican Party...what was it? Hmmm...it'll come to me....wait a minute...ahhhh...

Oh thats Right! THEY JUST HAD THEIR BEST ELECTION CYCLE IN 80 YEARS.

Gee...how 'stupid' of them.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-11-04   9:15:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Badeye (#11)

Oh thats Right! THEY JUST HAD THEIR BEST ELECTION CYCLE IN 80 YEARS.

And missed a golden opportunity to take the Senate.


On January 3, 2011 the GOP assumes responsibility for deficit spending.

go65  posted on  2010-11-04   9:16:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: go65 (#12)

And missed a golden opportunity to take the Senate.

ROTFLMAO.

Ah, nope. It was always a longshot in the Senate, as every poll for the past year indicated.

I don't blame you for retreating into a fantasy world this week, GO. Reality is ugly, and POTUS did the same thing yesterday too.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-11-04   9:20:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Badeye (#13) (Edited)

Ah, nope. It was always a longshot in the Senate, as every poll for the past year indicated.

Did you forget that YOU predicted that the GOP would take the Senate? Did you forget that Dick Morris, who you recently praised for his political acumen, predicted that the GOP would take the Senate.

You are going to hurt yourself with all that twisting and spinning.


On January 3, 2011 the GOP assumes responsibility for deficit spending.

go65  posted on  2010-11-04   9:25:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Badeye, skip intro, fred mertz, ferret mike, lucysmom, hondo88 (#13)

Ah, nope. It was always a longshot in the Senate, as every poll for the past year indicated.

Chuckle......

Dick Morris: HOW REPUBLICANS WILL WIN THE SENATE

http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/how-republicans-will-win-the-senate/

Dick Morris: BULLETIN! REPUBLICANS NOW POISED TO TAKE SENATE MAJORITY

http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/bulletin-republicans-now-poised-to-take-senate-majority/

Dick Morris and Eileen McGann: Shift in Washington State Boosts GOP Senate Hopes

http://townhall.com/columnists/DickMorrisandEileenMcGann/2010/11/01/shift_in_washington_state_b oosts_gop_senate_hopes

DICK MORRIS: GOP will win House, Senate

http://thehill.com/opinion/columnists/dick-morris/90873-gop-will-win-house-senate


On January 3, 2011 the GOP assumes responsibility for deficit spending.

go65  posted on  2010-11-04   9:28:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: go65 (#15)

Harry Reid cheated in the land of whores and gambling. The machines were spitting his name out before anyone voted. He is a fraud and they should revote by paper.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-11-04   9:45:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: go65 (#14)

Did you forget that YOU predicted that the GOP would take the Senate?

The database doesn't lie. LOL

Fred Mertz  posted on  2010-11-04   10:14:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: A K A Stone (#16)

Harry Reid cheated in the land of whores and gambling. The machines were spitting his name out before anyone voted. He is a fraud and they should revote by paper.

Angle made a massive mistake when she came out against Reid's efforts to save 40,000 jobs by backing loan guarantees for MGM.

Attacking the largest industry in your state isn't the way to win votes.


On January 3, 2011 the GOP assumes responsibility for deficit spending.

go65  posted on  2010-11-04   10:33:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: go65 (#18)

Angle made a massive mistake when she came out against Reid's efforts to save 40,000 jobs by backing loan guarantees for MGM.

Attacking the largest industry in your state isn't the way to win votes.

Never heard that one. Where is that power enumerated in the constitution?

So she was an honest follower of the constitution and Reid a serial usurper.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-11-04   10:37:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: A K A Stone (#16)

Harry Reid cheated in the land of whores and gambling.

Friends in Nevada never believed the polls putting Angle ahead were accurate. They thought there was something funny going on with the polling.

Did you know Angle, herself, said that 80% of her campaign money came from outside the state of Nevada? Does that sound to you like she had a lot of support from people in the state that could actually vote for her?

The citizens of Nevada are a pretty independent lot. The hint of outside meddling in their politics would be counterproductive.

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson

lucysmom  posted on  2010-11-04   10:59:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: A K A Stone (#19)

Never heard that one. Where is that power enumerated in the constitution?

He lobbied banks for loan guarantees that saved 40k jobs. I don't think there is anything in the Constitution that precludes such an effort.

She was an opponent of jobs for citizens of her state, which is why she lost.


On January 3, 2011 the GOP assumes responsibility for deficit spending.

go65  posted on  2010-11-04   11:00:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Badeye (#11)

THEY JUST HAD THEIR BEST ELECTION CYCLE IN 80 YEARS.

You say that like it's a good thing. By 2012 folks will come to realize that they suck too, and that switching wings on the corrupt two party fraud is no solution. Hopefully the grassroots of the Tea Party in conjunction with others will elect some third party candidates in '12.

I'm sticking with my prediction that the GOP will not take the presidency, due to their nominating liberal busbots for the ticket. They will push for a Dem win, but might get surprised by a third party one. The GOP leadership are arrogant retards.

Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-04   11:01:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: hondo68 (#22)

You say that like it's a good thing. By 2012 folks will come to realize that they suck too, and that switching wings on the corrupt two party fraud is no solution. Hopefully the grassroots of the Tea Party in conjunction with others will elect some third party candidates in '12.

it's only been a couple of years since Democrats held every seat they had and won every open seat.


On January 3, 2011 the GOP assumes responsibility for deficit spending.

go65  posted on  2010-11-04   11:14:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: go65 (#21)

She was an opponent of jobs for citizens of her state, which is why she lost.

She also ran an ad depicting Hispanics as gang members and a Republican operative tried to help out by running a spot encouraging Hispanic citizens not to vote - that backfired.

Then she can't tell the difference between an Asain and a Hispanic, annoying both groups.

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson

lucysmom  posted on  2010-11-04   11:17:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: lucysmom (#20)

Friends in Nevada never believed the polls putting Angle ahead were accurate. They thought there was something funny going on with the polling.

rasmussen had a very very bad election, he over-estimed GOP support something like 70% of races by an average of 4-5 points.


On January 3, 2011 the GOP assumes responsibility for deficit spending.

go65  posted on  2010-11-04   11:18:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: lucysmom (#20)

I just don't trust computer voting systems where one candidates name happens to pop up before any choices are made.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-11-04   11:28:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: lucysmom (#24)

Then she can't tell the difference between an Asain and a Hispanic, annoying both groups.

The asians are usually the smarter ones.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-11-04   11:29:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: go65 (#21)

He lobbied banks for loan guarantees that saved 40k jobs.

I don't know about this issue for sure. But what you said sounds kind of like intimidation. Why not just let the banks make their own decisions?

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-11-04   11:31:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: go65 (#14)

Did you forget that YOU predicted that the GOP would take the Senate?

1. Nope, I own my predictions, as you've know for the past three election cycles.

2. Morris didn't predict a GOP Senate take over. He predicted 6 - 8 seats, and said it was POSSIBLE the GOP could retake the Senate. I told you this here in the forum Monday. Did you forget? Morris nailed it, back in FEBRUARY btw.

3. No twisting or spinning here at all...but its okay if you want to pretend otherwise.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-11-04   11:32:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: hondo68 (#22)

I'm sticking with my prediction that the GOP will not take the presidency, due to their nominating liberal busbots for the ticket.

I seriously doubt this. Right now, polls show 42% of voters identify themselves as 'Conservatives' leading all other catagories by wide margins.

Plus your view requires the belief nobody 'learns'. Thats simply not the case. We got a bullshit democrat lite nominee in 2008 because it worked in 2000, and again in 2004 with Bush.

Whats winning is Conservative. As it always does when voiced and acted upon, when Conservative principals are adhered to.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-11-04   11:37:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: go65 (#21)

That last campaign ad Reid ran was very good, and probably got him reelected.

Course it was total bullshit...but very good bullshit none the less.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-11-04   11:43:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Badeye (#29)

2. Morris didn't predict a GOP Senate take over

I cited for your four different articles by Morris arguing how the GOP would take the Senate.


On January 3, 2011 the GOP assumes responsibility for deficit spending.

go65  posted on  2010-11-04   12:16:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Badeye (#30)

Plus your view requires the belief nobody 'learns'. Thats simply not the case. We got a bullshit democrat lite nominee in 2008 because it worked in 2000, and again in 2004 with Bush.

You got Sarah Palin one heart-beat away from the WH in 2008 and got slaughtered. Meanwhile "compassionate" conservative George W. Bush won twice.


On January 3, 2011 the GOP assumes responsibility for deficit spending.

go65  posted on  2010-11-04   12:30:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: go65 (#33)

Bush blew it for the Republicans in 2008. Palin is a good woman. She knows right from wrong. Zero isn't a cultural American and is immoral and evil.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-11-04   12:31:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: go65 (#32)

2. Morris didn't predict a GOP Senate take over I cited for your four different articles by Morris arguing how the GOP would take the Senate.

And I told you what he said Monday. ON radio, cable, and his blog.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-11-04   12:37:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: go65 (#33)

You got Sarah Palin one heart-beat away from the WH in 2008 and got slaughtered. Meanwhile "compassionate" conservative George W. Bush won twice.

Careful, the dwarf will threaten to sue you, pretend he sent a one way airline ticket so he can fight you in the Newark airport, for suggesting Bush 'won twice' (cracking myself up again).

Palin's the only reason McCain didn't lose the 2008 race by double digits.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-11-04   12:38:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: A K A Stone (#34)

Bush blew it for the Republicans in 2008.

And 2006.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-11-04   12:41:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: go65 (#25)

rasmussen had a very very bad election, he over-estimed GOP support something like 70% of races by an average of 4-5 points.

Interesting.

In Nevada even prominent Republicans were endorsing Reid.

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson

lucysmom  posted on  2010-11-04   13:40:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: lucysmom (#38)

In Nevada even prominent Republicans were endorsing Reid.

Like who?

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-11-04   13:41:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: A K A Stone (#26)

I just don't trust computer voting systems where one candidates name happens to pop up before any choices are made.

I wouldn't trust it either.

I was given the choice between computer voting and a paper ballot at my polling place. I choose the computer. After making all selections, a summary of votes cast is displayed; when the voter approves the summary, a paper summary is printed and the voter makes a final approval to complete the process.

I'm pretty happy with that system and voted to re-elect the SOS who put it in place.

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson

lucysmom  posted on  2010-11-04   13:50:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: A K A Stone (#27)

The asians are usually the smarter ones.

Don't tell me, tell Sharron.

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson

lucysmom  posted on  2010-11-04   13:51:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: A K A Stone (#28)

Why not just let the banks make their own decisions?

When we do, we have to bail them out.

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson

lucysmom  posted on  2010-11-04   13:52:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: lucysmom (#40)

We have the same system here in Ohio. I think that they should go a step further. They should give you a vote id number you could write down and check your vote online. Someone can switch out the little receipt like paper it writes on.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-11-04   13:52:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: lucysmom (#42)

we have to bail them out.

We have to do no such thing. Banks fail all the time and don't get bailed out.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-11-04   13:53:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: lucysmom (#41)

Don't tell me, tell Sharron.

Sharron?

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-11-04   13:54:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Badeye (#31)

That last campaign ad Reid ran was very good, and probably got him reelected.

Course it was total bullshit...but very good bullshit none the less.

Reid is smart and he's tough. Its easy to underestimate him because he is not MR. personality, is soft spoken, and looks like a wimp.

Reid is a Nevadan first and I don't think anyone doubts that.

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson

lucysmom  posted on  2010-11-04   13:57:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: A K A Stone (#34)

Palin is a good woman. She knows right from wrong.

I wouldn't trust that - unless your definition of "right from wrong" is on the loose side.

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson

lucysmom  posted on  2010-11-04   13:59:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: lucysmom (#46)

looks like a wimp.

That's for sure.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-11-04   14:00:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: A K A Stone (#45)

Sharron?

Sharron Angle (how soon they forget).

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson

lucysmom  posted on  2010-11-04   14:01:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: lucysmom (#47)

She knows that murdering your baby because you are irresponsible is wrong. Which is more then I can say for Obama.

I think she is wrong on the war but that is her position.

Obama said he was against the war but lied about it, continued it and escalated it.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-11-04   14:01:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: lucysmom (#49)

I thought you were talking about her. I never realized she was Asian though.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-11-04   14:02:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: lucysmom (#46)

Reid is a Nevadan first and I don't think anyone doubts that.

He's a liberal Democrat first.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-11-04   14:03:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: A K A Stone (#43)

Someone can switch out the little receipt like paper it writes on.

This is printed on a 4"(+ or -) wide paper tape - the whole tape would have to be switched out. I was also given a secret 4 digit unique code to enter before I could begin voting.

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson

lucysmom  posted on  2010-11-04   14:06:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: lucysmom (#53)

No code here. We stick in a card. Yes they could switch out the whole thing.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-11-04   14:09:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Badeye (#52)

He's a liberal Democrat first.

He is a Democrat, however he is definitely not liberal. Dennis Kucinich is liberal - see the difference?

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson

lucysmom  posted on  2010-11-04   14:11:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: lucysmom (#55)

Reid is a liberal. Kuchinch is an ultra liberal.

Serious question here. Do you consider yourself a liberal?

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-11-04   14:12:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: A K A Stone (#50)

She knows that murdering your baby because you are irresponsible is wrong.

So all anyone has to do to get your vote is say they oppose abortion?

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson

lucysmom  posted on  2010-11-04   14:16:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: A K A Stone (#56)

Do you consider yourself a liberal?

I used to consider myself a Conservative before Conservatives took a fly leap off the deep end.

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson

lucysmom  posted on  2010-11-04   14:19:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: lucysmom (#57)

So all anyone has to do to get your vote is say they oppose abortion?

No. But they will definitely lose support from me it if they support it.

It is a moral test. If they would be for killing babies they can't be trusted and would murder anyone for power.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-11-04   14:21:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: A K A Stone, lucysmom (#56)

Do you consider yourself a liberal?

She's an evangelical liberal pushing for a global socialist theocracy, IMO.

Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-04   14:22:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: lucysmom (#58)

I used to consider myself a Conservative before Conservatives took a fly leap off the deep end.

What do you consider the fly leap?

Maybe they just called themselves "conservatives"(ahem Lindsey Graham).

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-11-04   14:23:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: lucysmom (#55)

He is a Democrat, however he is definitely not liberal. Dennis Kucinich is liberal - see the difference?

All I see is your myopic viewpoint coming through again.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-11-04   15:36:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: A K A Stone, lucysmom (#61) (Edited)

I used to consider myself a Conservative before Conservatives took a fly leap off the deep end.

Really.

Which issue(s) were the flying leap?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Barrack Hussein Obama
President of the United States of America said that some Americans ; "They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back."

WhiteSands  posted on  2010-11-04   15:38:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: A K A Stone (#59)

It is a moral test. If they would be for killing babies they can't be trusted and would murder anyone for power.

How do you define "baby"?

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson

lucysmom  posted on  2010-11-04   15:59:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: Badeye (#62)

All I see is your myopic viewpoint coming through again.

Well, one of us is myopic.

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson

lucysmom  posted on  2010-11-04   16:02:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: lucysmom (#65)

All I see is your myopic viewpoint coming through again.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-11-04   16:05:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: hondo68 (#60)

She's an evangelical liberal pushing for a global socialist theocracy, IMO.

I don't think I'd like a global socialist theocracy.

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson

lucysmom  posted on  2010-11-04   16:06:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: WhiteSands (#63)

I used to consider myself a Conservative before Conservatives took a fly leap off the deep end. Really.

Which issue(s) were they flying leap?

Remember dwarf claiming he was a Repubican, til that Molinari woman told him to fuck off?

Same thing here. Bullshit. Utter bullshit.

And you will never get a specific answer from goofy.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-11-04   16:08:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: Badeye (#66)

You're repeating yourself again.

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson

lucysmom  posted on  2010-11-04   16:08:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: lucysmom (#69)

You ahve to repeat yourself when speaking to the ignorant, or willfully blind.

You qualify, twice.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-11-04   16:09:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: A K A Stone (#39)

In Nevada even prominent Republicans were endorsing Reid.

Like who?

Dave Aiazzi Reno City Councilman Tony Alamo, Jr. Doctor Director of the Bank of George Nevada Gaming Commission Former Nevada State Athletic Commissioner Boxing Commission Tony Alamo, Sr. Retired, Hispanic Activist Mark Alden University Regent Alfredo Alonso Principal, Lewis and Roca Bill Ames President, Peace Officers Research Association of Nevada Maggie Arias-Petrel Director with the Latin Chamber of Commerce CEO Global Professional Consulting Brian Atkinson Law Enforcement Officer Chris Ault Head Football Coach, UNR Jason Awad Attorney, Awad and Associates Jim Bahan Retired Businessman Anna Bailey Civil Rights Leader Robert William H. "Bob" Bailey Civil Rights Leader John Bailey Nevada State Athletic Commissioner Attorney Kimberly Bailey-Tureaud Editor and Co-Publisher of Black Image Marybel Bajter Vice President, Harrah's Vartan Barsoumian CEO, Arsenal, Inc. Frederick Bauman McIntyre & Bauman Group Pam Beal Rex Bell Attorney Harold Bellanger President and Principal Owner of Anderson Dairy Robert Belliveau Retired Physician Barry Bilbray Owner, Laughlin Towing and Storage Susan Bilbray Jay Bingham Former Clark County Commissioner Owner of lobbying firm, JDB Michael Bowman Attorney, Boss Business Service Tom Breitling VP, Wynn Resorts Mark Brown Republican Consultant President of Mark Brown Communications, LLC Richard Bunker Former Gaming Control Board President Former President of Nevada Resort Association Morgan Bunker Government Affairs, Faiss, Foley, Warren Jerry Bussell Frmr State Homeland Security Officer Colonel Homeland Security Advisor to the State of Nevada Don Campbell Partner, Campbell & Williams Larry Canarelli President and CEO, American Homes Don Carano Owner, Eldorado Hotel and Casino Nat Carasali Peppermill Hotel and Casino: Co-owner Lynne Carlson Property Manager, Carlson and Associates Catherine Carlson Duane Carlson Bob Cashell Mayor of Reno Raj Chanderraj Physician Peter Christiansen Attorney, Christiansen Law Offices Janet Chubb Attorney Tony (Drennan Anthony) Clark Retired, Major General: National Gaurd Tom Clark Director of Legislative & Regulatory Affairs, Holland Hart Chris Cole Vice President, Rogich Communications Group Bob Coyle Area President, Republic Services of Southern Nevada Susan Davila CEO of Desert View Regional Medical Center Rod Davis President/CEO, St. Rose Dominican Hospitals Paul Davis Professor of International Terrorism and Politics, UNLV and TMCC Kenith Dean Michael Dematteis Roberto Denis NV Energy, Senior VP for Energy Delivery Jim Denton Jim Denton Associates GOP Consultant Mary Doster Dena duBoef Vice President of Marketing, Top Rank Melvin G. Dunaway Jerry Dye Self Employed, Developer Rick Eaton Former Director Homeland of Security for State of NV Robert Ellis Owner B & E Auto Auction Sandy Ellis Owner B & E Auto Auction Michael Eppert Student Sheila Erlach Erlach Consulting Jacques Etchegoyhen Former Dougas County Commissioner Co-owner of Terra Firma and Associates Alan Feldman Senior Vice President MGM Resorts Greg Ferraro GOP Consultant Principle, The Ferraro Group Lorenzo Fertitta Former President, Co-founder and a Principal Shareholder: Station Casinos Frank Fertitta, III CEO and Chairman of the Board: Station Casinos Cliff Findlay CEO Findlay Automotive Group: President Mark Fiorentino Partner, Kummer Kaempfer Susan Fisher Principal, Fisher Consulting Mike Ford Partner, Abbey, Stubbs, and Ford, LLC Marisa Francovich Co-owner, The Grill at Quail Corners Sam Francovich Co-owner, The Grill at Quail Corners Daniel Garde Jeff Garofalo Attorney Alex Garza Vice Chairperson of Latin Chamber Jason Geddes Vice Chair, Board of Regents: Nevada System of Higher Education Former Assemblyman Dawn Gibbons First Lady Fred Gibson Board Member and Immediate Past Chair, Nevada Taxpayers Association John Gibson Chairman of the Board, American Pacific Corporation Garrett Gordon Attorney, Lewis and Roca Robbie Graham President, NTC Global Holding Group William Gregory Owner, Gregory and Associates Josh Griffin Former State Assemblyman Principal, Griffin Crowley Group Clark "Joe" Guild Lobbyist Jeff Guinn Aspen Financial Services Peter Guzman CEO OPA Group Lonnie Hammargren Former Lt Governor Kirk Harrison Attorney, Kemp Jones Coulthard Weldon Havins Physician Clair Haycock Haycock Petroleum Tracy Hemmert Jerry Herbst Owner, Terrible Herbst Company Noah Herrera V President, National Association of Hispanic Real Estate Professionals of Nevada Michael Hillerby Executive Vice President, Wingfield Nevada Group Harold Holder Chairman of Holder Hospitality Group Susan Holecheck Mayor of Mesquite David Hornbeck Attorney Bill Hornbuckle Chief Marketing Officer MGM Resorts Tom Husted President, Valley Electric Mark James Former Clark County Commissioner Former Nevada State Senator Florence Jameson Founder, Volunteers in Medicine of Southern Nevada Gard Jameson Founder, Volunteers in Medicine of Southern Nevada Matt Jenson Iraq War Veteran Maizie Harris Jesse Community Activist Larry Johnson President of Nevada Wildlife Coalition David Kallas Political Director, Las Vegas Police Protective Association Brian J. Kennedy NV Energy Board of Directors President and CEO of Argonaut, LLC Chairman of Meridian Gold, Inc. Past President and COO of FMC Gold Rifaat Khan Philanthropist Dorothy Kidd Principal, Kidd Realty Tony Korfman Former Gaming Executive Linda Korfman Homemaker Heather Kutzer Student Gary David Lake Self Employed, Entreprenuer Ron Larson Law Enforcement Officer John Laub Executive Director of the Regenerative Medicine Organization Michelle Laxalt Laxalt Corporation Jennifer Lazovich Partner, Kaempfer Crowell Law Firm Douglas Lee O.D. Hae Un Lee Lee's Discount Liquor Tom Letizia CEO Letizia Companies Russell Letizia Luther Mack Restaurateur Greg Maddux Former MLB Pitcher Nancy Madrigal Tim Maland Former Executive Director of the Commission on Tourism General Manager of the MontBleu Resort Casino & Spa in Lake Tahoe, NV Donna Maland Financial Advisor Nick and Dee Mallas co-owner of Skofed Mortgage Funding Corporation, on board of First Asian Bank Tony Marnell John C. Martin Founder, Partner, and Vice President of C. Martin Company Geno Martini Mayor of Sparks Mike Mayberry Former Chief of Henderson Police William McBeath Physician Jim Medick President, Precision Opinion Lee Medick Realtor, Vegas Fine Estates Otto Merida President and CEO, Latin Chamber of Commerce, Nevada, Inc. Reed Merrell Lyell Metcalf Professor of Hotel Administration at UNLV Caroline Montgomery Jim Murren CEO and Chairman of MGM Mirage Sandra Myers Wayne Newton Entertainer Scott Nielson Executive Vice President and Chief Development Officer of Stations Casino Susan Oldham Attorney Stan Olsen State Senator Nathan Ozobia Physician Bill Paganetti Peppermill Hotel and Casino Paul Page Chair of LV Metro Police Managers and Supervisors Association Phil Peckman Greg Peek President of the Nevada Home Builders Association Former President of the Builders Association of Northern Nevada Sandy Peltyn DeSimone Consulting John Pfeffer President, Micro Instruments Corp Brenda Pfeffer Tim Poster VP, Wynn Resorts RD Prabhu Physician Verita Prothro Business Development Manager, Nevada Arrhythmia Services Virginia Ridgway Former Esmerelda County Commissioner, Goldfield Chamber of Commerce Steven Ririe AAA, Insurance Agent John Ritter CEO of Focus Group Xavier Rivas Radio Talk Show Co-host, KRLV Uwe Rockenfeller President and CEO, Rocky Research, Inc. Sig Rogich President, Rogich Communications Group Joe Salcedo Realtor Donna Salway Teacher Ken Santor Former Nevada State Treasurer Blake Sartini Chairman, President, and CEO of Golden Gaming, Inc. Greg Sawyer President, Washoe County Sheriff Deputies Association Patricia Scott Retired Pat Shalmy Former President of NV Power Rahul Singal Physician, CEO of WorldDoc Don Snyder Former President, Boyd Gaming Nancy Stewart Retired Educator Barry Stubbs Partner, Abbey, Stubbs, and Ford, LLC BJ and Mary Sullivan Clark and Sullivan Construction Kenneth Teeters Retired Educator Marv Teixeira Former Mayor of Carson City Steve Teschera CEO and President North Lake Tahoe Resort Association Peter Thomas Thomas and Mack Co., Managing Partner Brett Torino Owner, Torino Construction Corporation of Nevada Laurie Trail Roger Trounday Executive Vice President, John Ascauga's Nugget Charles Tureaud CDA Media Relations LLC Rusty Tybo Mayor of Wells Jim Uster Former Chair of Clark County Republican Party Giles Vanderhoof Retired General Carlos Vasquez President and CEO, Cav Strategies Rita Vaswani Vice President of Bank of Nevada Edward Vento Veteran Troy Wade Marlan Walker Chase Whittemore Resort at Red Hawk Richard Williamson Robertson and Benevento Richard Worthington Molasky Group, President Frank Wyatt President of Pinnacle Homes Inc. Michael Yackira Pres. & CEO, NV Energy Bill Young Former Sheriff of Clark County Manuel Zatarain Retired Bridget Zick Elementary School Teacher, Rozone School

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson

lucysmom  posted on  2010-11-04   16:21:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: Badeye (#70)

You ahve to repeat yourself when speaking to the ignorant, or willfully blind.

You qualify, twice.

Blind? Oh well...

"Insanity is doing the same thing over again expecting a different result"; have you heard that before?

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson

lucysmom  posted on  2010-11-04   16:29:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Badeye (#70)

"You ahve to repeat yourself when speaking to the ignorant, or willfully blind. You qualify, twice".

Thanks big guy, I almost choked on my bagel...lol

"I really wanna care. I wanna feel somethin'. Let me dig a little deeper:. No, My give-a-damn's busted"~ Messina Jo Dee

Murron  posted on  2010-11-04   16:34:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: lucysmom (#58)

I used to consider myself a Conservative before Conservatives took a fly leap off the deep end.

I used to consider myself a Conservative before Conservatives took a fly leap off the deep end. Really.

Which issue(s) did they take a flying leap on?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Barrack Hussein Obama
President of the United States of America said that some Americans ; "They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back."

WhiteSands  posted on  2010-11-04   16:37:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: lucysmom (#71)

Those are all liberals.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-11-04   16:38:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: A K A Stone (#75)

Those are all liberals.

Really? You checked out every single one of them?

Bullshit.

Skip Intro  posted on  2010-11-04   16:40:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: Skip Intro (#76)

Those are all liberals.

Really? You checked out every single one of them?

Bullshit.

That is the point. I know it is bullshit. She said many prominent Republicans endorsed Reid. Then she didn't mention a couple of prominent names. She cut and pasted some list. So I gave a flippant answer.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-11-04   16:49:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: A K A Stone, Skip Intro (#76)

As a confirmed liar and racist , Skippy is in no position to question the integrity of anyone.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Barrack Hussein Obama
President of the United States of America said that some Americans ; "They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back."

WhiteSands  posted on  2010-11-04   16:52:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: Murron (#73)

Pleasure is mine! lmao.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-11-04   17:01:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: lucysmom (#72)

"Insanity is doing the same thing over again expecting a different result"; have you heard that before?

Yep, for the past couple of months thats what Liberals have been telling us to do by voting for this regime and the idiot Democrats in the Congress.

Thankfully, the majority declined Tuesday.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-11-04   17:03:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: A K A Stone (#77)

I know it is bullshit.

What you know ain't so.

She said many prominent Republicans endorsed Reid. Then she didn't mention a couple of prominent names.

So the problem is that there are too many prominent Republicans supporting Reid?

Here's a pared down but partial list:

State Sen. Dean Rhoads, Reno Mayor Bob Cashell, Sparks Mayor Geno Martini, Sig Rogich consultant for GOP governors Kenny Guinn and Jim Gibbons, state Sen. Bill Raggio, Dawn Gibbons First Lady, Dema Guinn Former First Lady, Lonnie Hammargren Former Lt Governor...

She cut and pasted some list.

Yea, I did. In total there are some 400 republican politicians, businessmen and woman, etc. who publicly support Reid - I doubt keying the name of each myself would make the list more legitimate.

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson

lucysmom  posted on  2010-11-04   18:17:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: lucysmom (#81)

I know I was bullshitting and didn't check if they were all liberals.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-11-04   18:25:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: hondo68 (#0) (Edited)

While outside Democratic groups belatedly tried to mimic the GOP efforts, they fell short.

The big outside spenders on the Democratic side were labor unions such as AFSME ($10.7 million)

This entire article is full of crap.

The number one spender this year was AFSME (the government bureaucrat union), who spent almost $90 MILLION dollars.

3 of the top 5 spenders were unions.

Unions should be prohibited from using forced dues to fund political initiatives. They should be required to form PACS and solicit voluntary campaign contributions like everyone one, including corporations.


"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson

jwpegler  posted on  2010-11-04   18:33:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: lucysmom (#81)

I used to consider myself a Conservative before Conservatives took a fly leap off the deep end.

Really.

Which issue(s) did they take a flying leap on?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Barrack Hussein Obama
President of the United States of America said that some Americans ; "They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back."

WhiteSands  posted on  2010-11-04   18:55:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: WhiteSands (#84)

Which issue(s) did they take a flying leap on?

I'll give you two - birth control and abortion.

Even back in the old days when abortion for most women was illegal, abortion for women who's health was endangered was accepted.

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson

lucysmom  posted on  2010-11-04   22:38:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: lucysmom (#85)

Abortion is evil. I don't think any conservatives have banned rubbers or the pill or anything else.

So basically you are saying the Republicans aren't evil so I have to go with the Demoncrats because they will allow me to murder my baby. whoopee doo

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-11-04   22:41:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: lucysmom (#58)

I used to consider myself a Conservative before Conservatives took a fly leap off the deep end.

Given: A.) your complete lack of an even rudimentary understanding of how the economic system works and B.) your complete hostility to entrepreneurs, I don't believe you. I know that you are lying.


"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson

jwpegler  posted on  2010-11-04   22:45:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: A K A Stone (#86)

Abortion is evil. I don't think any conservatives have banned rubbers or the pill or anything else.

Haven't you heard? The pill is an abortifacient as is the IUD.

If you are taking these products to avoid pregnancy (and abortion), now you know that the makers and promoters of "birth control" products have betrayed you and your children. It has been proven many times that these products do not completely stop ovulation and conception. In fact, depending upon the product you're using, you could be at risk of ending the life of a newly conceived son or daughter every month by birth control's chemical abortions.

http://www.prolife.com/BIRTHCNT.html

So, again I ask, how do you define "baby"?

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson

lucysmom  posted on  2010-11-04   23:07:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: lucysmom (#88)

First off IU486 isn't birth control.

Secondly it is dumb to have to define a baby.

A baby is a fertilized human egg. If not then there would be no need to kill it.

Murder is murder. Even if it is a helpless little baby. I always wondered why liberals hate babies to such a degree that they justify murdering them with twisted logic.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-11-04   23:12:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: jwpegler (#87)

Given: A.) your complete lack of an even rudimentary understanding of how the economic system works ...

Certainly I'm no match for the world's foremost authority.

B.) your complete hostility to entrepreneurs

Really? I've been an entrepreneur, though not one of the entrepreneurial ilk that looks upon the rest of humanity with disdain.

I know that you are lying.

Then you are so full of yourself you can't see the forest for the trees.

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson

lucysmom  posted on  2010-11-04   23:19:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: A K A Stone (#89)

First off IU486 isn't birth control.

I'm not talking about IU486.

Again, if you're reading about CHEMICAL ABORTIONS for the first time, this may surprise, or even shock you. Most Americans are not aware that the Pill and other chemical "contraceptives" cause millions of "non-surgical" abortions each year in the early weeks of pregnancy. If you are using the Pill, Depo-Provera or Norplant, you need to know the truth about how these products work.

Most women take these "contraceptives" because they don't want to have a baby. But how many women know they can have BREAKTHROUGH OVULATIONS and become pregnant while using these "contraceptives?" Very few! And how many of these women know that if they become pregnant after a BREAKTHROUGH OVULATION, these "contraceptives" will almost always kill any son or daughter they've conceived?

Most people don't know the real facts about how "contraceptives" work. And because of this lack of knowledge, most women are not aware that they may be having BREAKTHROUGH OVULATIONS, and conceiving children that are killed very early in the pregnancy. Women using these "contraceptives" almost never perceive that they have become pregnant, or that chemicals have killed their tiny baby.

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson

lucysmom  posted on  2010-11-04   23:27:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: lucysmom (#91)

I don't know how they work. If the argument can be made that they kill babies then they can ban them too for all I care. I don't know enough about that though to be honest with you.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-11-04   23:31:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: A K A Stone (#92)

If the argument can be made that they kill babies then they can ban them too for all I care.

Most people, including me, would consider that an extreme position. ie flying leap off the deep end.

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson

lucysmom  posted on  2010-11-04   23:37:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: lucysmom (#93)

Most people, including me, would consider that an extreme position. ie flying leap off the deep end.

Lucy I like you. But right is right and wrong is wrong.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-11-04   23:39:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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